04/05/05 - RECORD OF INTERVIEW of Patrick Bernard O'MAHONEY

RECORD OF INTERVIEW

Person interviewed: Patrick Bernard O'MAHONEY
Place of interview: Spalding Police Station
Date of interview: 4 May 2005
Time commenced: 1628
Duration of interview: 40 minutes
Audio tape reference nos. (*): 32/B7/401/05
Interviewer(s): DC 1220 GURNEY DC 250 SKEATH
Other persons present: Mr CAUTHRY, solicitor
Police Exhibit No. PEG/10A
Number of Pages: 7
Time concluded: 1708
Visual image reference nos. (*):

Notice re tapes.
Introductions.
Right to free and independent legal advice - solicitor present.

1.14
1220

Caution.

DC GURNEY explains that DP has been arrested following allegations of threats made to James COTTAM and his partner, Kirsty JONES. COTTAM is said to have done some work in DP's house, which seems to have been the origin of the complaint. DP explains that COTTAM was due to complete some woodwork on some doors, flooring, skirting boards and architrave at his house. He says that COTTAM was half way through this work when he ran off with FOSTER'S wife.

Q
So what work did you pay him to do?

R
I paid for the floor and the money for the materials for the doors and stuff, which I've never seen since.

Q
Which floor was it?

R
Upstairs - my boy done the one downstairs.

3.46

DP explains that he had had an extension built to his house in which the work was to be carried out. He says that skirtings and 6 doors were to be fitted along with the surrounding frames (architrave),

Q
Did you pay him before he carried out the work?

R
He wouldn't do it 'cos he never had no money. I paid him for the materials and that. That was the agreement.

DP says that the materials cost him £500 and that he paid COTTAM £1,200 -£1,400 cash up front for the labour. He says that FOSTER has offered to finish the work for O'MAHONEY in an attempt to settle the matter. DP says that FOSTER may have also done some of the initial work at his house with COTTAM.

Q
How did you come to employ COTTAM?

R
I knew that Ady ... COTTAM had started up on his own and he had fliers. I've still got them at the house, loads of fliers, and 'cos I'm in the building trade he asked me if I'd dish 'em out to people to get him a bit of work to get him going. That's how I got to know him and my wife who's died knew Kirsty.

8.40
DC GURNEY says that COTTAM has claimed that he down tooled because DP had not paid him what he was owed, £1,200. Referring to previous text messages sent by DP to COTTAM, DC GURNEY asks DP why he was asking for the return of FOSTER'S property.

R
Just to end it all.

11.20
DP explains that FOSTER is working on his house 'for free' and claims that he has had to purchase a duplicate lot of materials.

13.47

Q
So at what point have you asked him for this £500?

R
'Cos that's the money I give for the materials.

15.19

Q
Have you ever agreed to pay Adrian for the work that's been done in your house?

R
No. I won't pay him neither.

DP says that Adrian worked for him in December, doing work in his living room and on a front room door. DC GURNEY says that one allegation is that DP has demanded £1,000 + interest.

R
Probably have done, yeah.

O'MAHONEY says that he has probably made this demand in temper. DP speaks of an agreement made by DP and COTTAM on the Thursday of the week in question.

R
He was going to come to my house while I was in Paris and do the work.

17.10

Q
Was there any agreement about money changing hands?

R
No, just the £500.

O'MAHONEY agrees that he has known FOSTER for about a year. FOSTER has stated that he considers himself to be a good friend of DP's, however, DP points out that although he is friendly with FOSTER, they are not good friends. O'MAHONEY concedes that he invited FOSTER to his wedding, but adds that he also invited Kirsty JONES.

20.23

DC GURNEY lists five text messages that O'MAHONEY sent to COTTAM's mobile phone regarding Adrian FOSTER and his belongings. "I've asked you to give my friend his stuff back." "You didn't give my mate his gear." DP claims to have been with a girl called Toni SHADIR in Paris, with a child, and that SHADIR was party to any conversations. He explains that SHADIR and the child are black skinned, which is why he has taken offence at the allegations that he has made racial insults.

R
There was plenty of Pakis at my wedding.

23.17

DP says that SHADIR is a model and that she is currently in Milan. O'MAHONEY confirms that he has had sole possession of his mobile phone from 29 April - Sunday 1 May 2005. He says that he flew to Paris at 1 or 2 pm on 29 April and returned at 5 - 6 pm.

Q
Did you have any verbal conversations with either Kirsty or James whilst you were in France on that Sunday?

R
She rung me first...

Q
Do you recall any telephone conversations that you had shortly before catching your plane?

R
I'm not going to agree times and that because ...

DC GURNEY reads part of COTTAM's statement, where he has alleged that at nine minutes past five he received a text message saying "You're really fucking me off. Answer fool". Two minutes later, COTTAM's phone has been rung by DP. DP has told him "I'm going to fucking kill you, I'm going to fucking kill you, why make an agreement and not keep it? I'm coming to the hospital now".

27.25

O'MAHONEY says that he had been told that COTTAM's grandad was at the hospital at Addenbrooke's Hospital, which is why he had not been able to do the work for him. DC GURNEY reminds DP that he said yesterday that FOSTER told him about COTTAM being at the hospital.

28.16

DP is told that when COTTAM has received this phone call, he has passed the phone to a police officer who he is sitting with, making a statement. COTTAM has indeed been at the police station whilst receiving this call, not at the hospital. PC KITCHEN from Bourne Police Station has looked at the phone, which has shown the caller as 'Bernie' and noted the time as thirteen minutes past five. The second part of the phone conversation, which the police officer hears, is of a loud, angry, male voice on the other line saying "Give me the money or I will cut you to pieces, you fucking wanker".

R
I deny that.

O'MAHONEY now claims to have been in flight at thirteen minutes past five.

32.06
250

When you were in France, did you make a call from your mobile phone to his mobile phone?

R
I spoke to him and he rung me back as well and she rung me as well.

DP says that, as far as he is aware, nobody used his mobile phone to make a call whilst in Paris. DC GURNEY tells DP that FOSTER has been spoken to and stated that DP has asked him for several weeks to carry work out at his house. The reason that he has not done so is because he has been too busy with other work, not that he could not afford to do the work as previously alleged by O'MAHONEY.

33.44
DP says that both COTTAM and FOSTER are carpenters.

Q
I put it to you that you were intimidating COTTAM to pay you this money.

R
No comment.

Q
You were using menaces to recover this money.

R
No comment.

Q
What other method would there have been for you to have recover money from him?

R
No comment.

35.18

R
If COTTAM's saying I've not paid him, why didn't COTTAM take me to the small claims court?

36.29

Q
What I'm putting to you is that you've gone out to recover a debt on behalf of your friend, Adrian FOSTER.

R
A debt? Where do you get the debt from?

Q
Something that's owed to him, ie his property.

R
What, a washing machine!

37.02

Q
Have you ever been in the business of debt recovery?

37.06

R
It's not an illegal business. I used to work for Brixton Court.

Q
So did you tell FOSTER that you'd help him recover his stuff because you've got experience in recovering debts?

R
No, 'cos I would have took him to the small claims court wouldn't I?

37.29

Q
Have you got any knowledge of illegal methods of recovering debt?

R
No comment.

DC GURNEY speaks of a web site in the name of 'Bernard O'MAHONEY' -DP claims that this is a web site belonging to a company run by Martin MOORE in Devon and has nothing to do with himself.

Q
'Bernardomahoney.com - Essex boys.' It's nothing to do with you at all? Is that a picture of you on the web site?

DP denies that the web site has anything to do with himself.

The webs site is said to feature a book.

R
It was written ten years ago.

DC GURNEY describes the book as featuring violence with reference to non payment of debt.

41.14

Q
Did you write that?

R
Simon HILLS wrote it. didn't he?

Interview concluded at 17.08.