03/05/05 - RECORD OF INTERVIEW of Patrick Bernard O'MAHONEY

Person interviewed: Patrick Bernard O'MAHONEY
Place of interview: Spalding Police Station
Date of interview: 3 May 2005
Time commenced: 0032
Duration of interview: 34 minutes
Audio tape reference nos. (*): 32/B7/401/05
Interviewer(s): DS 838 GIBBON DC 1220 GURNEY
Other persons present: None
Police Exhibit No. PEG/6A
Number of Pages: 7
Time concluded: 0106
Visual image reference nos. (*):

Introductions. Right to free and independent legal advice - declined.

1.48
1220

Caution.

DC GURNEY speaks of text messages that DP has allegedly sent James COTTAM. DP says that the text messages are not 'illegal'. DC GURNEY continues to list the messages sent:-0954 - "You wanker..." "You're history, prick."

R
His mate's rung me and told me. He's rung his mate and said I'm going to ring the police and his mate's rung and told me. 1823 - "Take me on fool, I'll now ruin your business and your life in Bourne. I asked you to give my friend his stuff back, you refused and now you have a huge problem."

R
It means what it says.

R
Well, I used to get him work and I'd stopped getting him work 'cos he told everyone in the building game he'd fucking knocked me and no-one will give him no work. 1825 - "I dare you to grass on me. My man is on his way to teach you about fucking with me."

4.58

Q
Who's your man then?

R
Nobody.

Q
What does this text mean then?

R
It was just an idle threat really 'cos he's told me that... no, there's definitely no- one on the way to him.

6.15

DC GURNEY says that COTTAM has phoned DP after receiving these text messages and asked what he wanted him to do. DP has allegedly demanded the sofa, TV, washing machine and tumble drier and then said to COTTAM "Pick a number between one and ten".

R
What for?

Q
He said he answered "Five" and you said "Put £500 through my letterbox before I get back, then it will be over" and you referred to £500 earlier on ...

R
Yeah, yeah, but not pick a number between one and ten!

COTTAM has then sent DP a text message saying "Are you sure that's it? You've had me over for £1,200, I hope this is the end of it". 1856 - "Put Ady's stuff in his garage and my money through my money box. I'm in Paris until Sunday."

COTTAM has alleged that on 29 April between 0930 and 1000 he has received a telephone call inbetween text messages and could overhear a lot of background noise. DP has then asked him "You have Ady's stuff back by the time I get back, you cleared his house and nicked his stuff. I'm going to cut you anyway and if you call the police I'll slit your throat".

R
That is absolute crap.

10.14

DP confirms that he was in Paris at the time of this conversation. COTTAM has said that he phoned DP back, but that COTTAM has terminated the call, after saying "Stop fucking talking d you listen to me, you do as I say and you won't get hurt". 2345 30 April - "Did you pay what you owe today?" 1651 1 May - "I'm back now, you didn't give my mate his gear and you didn't pay me. Why not? I'm going to see you today. Why agree and then not do it?"

R
Which is what I've said all along.

Q
Okay. Did you sent that text message then?

R
"Why didn't you pay me as agreed?"

Q
Mm.

R
Yeah. That was the gist of all the conversations as well. There's nothing threatening about that is there?

12.33

COTTAM has alleged that he received two further phone calls around 1700 on 1 May, which he did not answer. However, DP has then sent him a text message at 1709 saying "You're really fucking me off. Answer fool". At 1711 COTTAM's phone has rung again. COTTAM has answered the call and DP has allegedly said "I'm going to fucking kill you, I'm going to fucking kill you. Why make an agreement and not keep it? I'm coming up to the hospital now

Q
So you didn't say that?

R
No, I definitely did not say that.

14.07

Another message has been sent, saying "I'm telling you James, don't fuck with me or play games. I want this sorting today. Answer your phone. I've spent today looking for you. I'm no fool".

Q
Did you send that text message?

R
Yeah. There's nothing threatening in that, is there?

DP admits that the majority of the text messages are accurate, to the best of his knowledge, but points out that they are not threatening.

Q
And the threats to kill ...

R
They're absolute fantasy.

16.23

DC GURNEY explains that Kirsty JONES has made a statement and said that on Friday 29 April at about 10 o'clock she has phoned DP from her mobile phone.

Q
What did she say to you then?

R
"Fucking ... he ain't done it." 'Cos he's told her I never paid him, so she's going "He ain't fucking doing your flooring, doors and that, bollocks, 'cos you ain't paid him". I said "Well, he's just like to you, ! have paid him". 'Cos he never had the money for the material, I give him the money up front.

Q
What else have you said to her?

R
"Just keep your fucking nose out of it."

JONES has stated that she phoned DP and said "Bernie, it's Kirsty. What started this?" DP has replied "You've taken Adrian's stuff', then "Shut up you Paki cunt, you're a little shit. Tell your Paki loving boyfriend I will slit his throat if you go to the police".

Q
Did you say that?

R
No.

19.13

At around quarter past ten DP has phoned JONES' mobile.

R
'Cos he wouldn't answer his phone.

DP has asked "Where's that little prick? I'm coming to find him".

R
From Paris?

O'MAHONEY has then allegedly threatened to visit JONES. DP has then later rung James' mobile phone and JONES has answered - DP has then asked "Where's that little prick? If he calls the police I'm going to slit his throat". DP recalls speaking to JONES on this occasion and her telling him that James was not home. O'MAHONEY has then allegedly demanded £1,000 from JONES. She has questioned how she owed DP £1,000 and he has replied "Because I said so" and "It will be £1,500 tomorrow. Don't argue with me, get that little prick to phone me as soon as possible".

22.12

About ten minutes later DP has rung James' phone again and spoken to JONES again. On the Sunday, JONES has stated that her phone rang again at 1709 - she has answered it and DP has asked "Where are you? Where's James?"

Q
Do you remember making that call?

R
Possibly if he didn't answer his phone.

Q
So at nine minutes past five, where would you have been then?

24.50

R
I was flying at five, so I couldn't have phoned at nine minutes past five.

Q
Do you remember calling her at all on that Sunday?

R
Sunday's the day I found out he hadn't done the work and like I said he wouldn't answer the phone and she rung me first. I didn't ring her, remember? She rung me 'cos I never had her number, so when he wouldn't answer his phone I rung her back and asked where he was. She said "I'll get him to ring you", which he did do then, he rung me, which he admits himself.

25.49
DC GURNEY asks DP if he asked JONES where she was - he denies asking this, but JONES has stated that she told him that she was at the hospital.

Q
Do you recall that?

R
No, FOSTER told me she was at the hospital.

Q
Okay. When did FOSTER tell you that she was at the hospital?

R
When I rung him about not doing the job.

27.52

JONES has stated that DP left a voice message on her mobile phone, saying "All you're doing by not answering me is winding me up. You wind me up and I will come to the hospital to see you. Answer the fucking phone and get it resolved".

R
That's what I said all along, I don't want to see them. Just talk to me on the phone, resolve it, goodbye.

2955
838

Why go to the hospital?

R
To resolve it 'cos I want it sorted out.

30.14
1220

How would you resolve it by going to the hospital then?

R
Just to say "I want the work done".

Following this message, JONES says that she had a further three missed calls on her phone from DP, timed at 1720, 1723 and 1732.

R
'Cos they wouldn't answer the phone and did I go to the hospital? No.

30.55

Q
Had you spoken to FOSTER at this time about what was going on? About these conversations?

R
I spoke to FOSTER before I spoke to them.

O'MAHONEY admits to sending the aforesaid text messages, but denies that they were intended to be perceived as a threat.

32.30

Q
So to summarise, the only money you've demanded from them is money that is owed to you because they've failed to do this job and this is money that you've paid to them previous?

R
And now I've had to swallow it, FOSTER'S swallowed it 'cos he 's done the work for me, but I've had to pay for the materials again ...

33.07

Q
In relation to the allegations of 'slitting throats', you're saying that's not taken place?

R
It doesn't even match what I'm saying in the texts.

33.49

Q
Okay, so by sending those text messages, have you intended any person to fear for their safety?

R
No, not at all, no.

Q
Have you threatened anybody with violence?

R
No, definitely not. There's no violence in there.

Q
Have you directly threatened or suggested to anybody that they'd be killed if they didn't meet your demands?

R
That's just what you'd wish, you'd like to think had been said.

35.44 Interview concluded at 0106.