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03/12/03 - Soham Trial Transcript
Wednesday, 03 December 2003
SKY News
Richard Latham is the chief prosecutor; his colleague
on the prosecution team is Karim Khalil QC. Stephen Coward
QC is Ian Huntley's defence barrrister. Michael Hubbard
QC is Maxine Carr's defence lawyer. Mr Justice Moses is
the judge. Other witnesses and lawyers are introduced
as they appear.
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02
MR JUSTICE MOSES
ladies and gentlemen I am sorry to keep you waiting. I
have got something to say to you, it is important I do
have good reason to ask you. May I ask if there is any
Members of the Jury who has a friend or relative who has
been up in the public gallery today? Thank you very much.
I want to say two things. first of all, remember the warning
I have given you. I'm not going to ask, but if it be the
case that any Members of the Jury has had a friend or
relative within the public gallery at any time during
this trial up, to this minute, I do hope if that be the
case that nobody has been in breach of my direction to
you and discussed the case with him.
I will not ask you any questions, but I say that because
I hope if that had occurred, whoever it was would tell
me. the other thing is, for the future, it would be wrong
for any of you to invite a friend or relative. You can
understand the suspicion would arise, ---- to start discussing
the case. that's all I'm going to say. thank you very
much. nobody wants me to add anything? thank you very
much.
MR HUBBARD
the final stage in the evidence you are to hear in this
trial is about to take place. In a few moments, I shall
be calling Maxine Carr and then tomorrow another witness
on her behalf. It may be appropriate you may think, at
this stage, just to remind ourselves of why she is sitting
alongside Ian Huntley and what obviously she is not here
for.
On any view, - and it is not for me to comment now - what
you have heard in the last two and a half days has been
distressful and harrowing. Insofar as it has been, you
will doubtless agree it has no application to Maxine Carr.
It was, if you think about it, 16 months to the day of
the month today, Saturday, 3rd August, that a 25 year
old woman set off to visit her mum in Grimsby.
She was, at that time, on the threshold of her life in
the sense that she was planning to marry Ian Huntley.
Whilst she was away from Soham, events unfolded that weekend
of which, plainly, she had no control. Within two weeks
of arriving back, the course of her life has changed forever.
She had done no wrong that weekend, whilst events were
unfolding in Soham. she is here because she lied.
You will not hear word from us condoning the lies she
persisted in telling for almost up to two weeks. But your
task is not to judge her morally, although tempting it
is. Your task will be to decide whether criminal liability
should attach to her for the lies she told. What is of
great importance in this case, the criminal case so far
as she is concerned, her state of mind, her process of
thought at the time she told the lies and agreed to lie.
She is going to come forward in a moment from where she
has been sitting, if you think about it, for the entirety
of this trial, save for a morning when evidence did not
affect her and we were all out on this side of the court.
She has not missed any evidence. Forget the caricatures
of her you may have seen in the press, you have all seen
how she has been and her conduct.
We urge you to make allowance as she comes forward now
and you will doubtless judge whatever else you judge in
this case, at the end of it, that the costs of those lies
has been enormous. She sits alongside the defendant in
a trial which the world and his wife have been watching.
So make allowances, as I am sure you will, be vigilant.
Be vigilant for where the truth lies in this case. In
essence it couldn't be a simpler case against her and
for her. The prosecution say she told lies primarily and
did other things to assist Ian Huntley, knowing or believing
he had killed those girls unlawfully. Her defence, as
you will hear in a moment, is yes, I lied, but the reason
I lied was to protect Ian Huntley from a repetition of
what he told me happened to him those years back and the
effect upon him, which I have seen since I have been with
him.
If for a moment I knew or believed he had murdered or
killed either of those two girls, who were close to me
- one of whom sent a card to me - I would have been horrified.
Ironic, isn't it, you may think, whatever else you find,
that when she left for Grimsby 16 months ago, there was
a card in her home from one of the girls who, 14 days
later she was arrested for murder upon. Of course, it
never proceeded.
She can hardly complain that she was arrested for murder,
and she doesn't. But that's the irony. A person who obviously
was fond of those girls, who now stands alongside what
the Crown, who the Crown say is the author of their deaths
in a murderous way. So, Members of the Jury, it is a very
simple defence. You have got to determine, as best you
can, her thought processes. There is no better way of
doing that than listening and watching her in this court.
So let's set about that now. Maxine Carr
(Maxine
Carr, sworn)
Examined by MR HUBBARD.
MR HUBBARD
your name?
MAXINE CARR
Maxine Ann Carr.
MR HUBBARD
26 years of age now?
MAXINE CARR
that's right, yes.
MR HUBBARD
25 back in August of last year?
MAXINE CARR
yes.
MR HUBBARD
just a word or two about early life. born, I think, near
Grimsby?
MAXINE CARR
yes that's right in a little village.
MR HUBBARD
a village called?
MAXINE CARR
it was North Selsey*.
MR HUBBARD
north Selsey. brought up with mum in early years?
MAXINE CARR
that's right, yes.
MR HUBBARD
brothers and sisters?
MAXINE CARR
I have got one sister, Hayley.
MR HUBBARD
when you left school, I think you were in and out of hospital
for a while?
MAXINE CARR
yes, I was.
MR HUBBARD
a condition?
MAXINE CARR
anorexia nervosa.
MR HUBBARD
does that still affect you from time to time?
MAXINE CARR
Yes, they say you never get rid of it.
MR HUBBARD
we can move straight on, I think, until the time when
you met Ian Huntley?
MAXINE CARR
okay.
MR HUBBARD
you remember when about that was?
MAXINE CARR
I believe it was February 1999.
MR HUBBARD
and where did you meet him?
MAXINE CARR
I met him in a nightclub in Grimsby called Hollywoods.
MR HUBBARD
you became fond of him?
MAXINE CARR
yes, very much.
MR HUBBARD
started to live with him?
MAXINE CARR
yes.
MR HUBBARD
various addresses?
MAXINE CARR
yes we moved all over the place.
MR HUBBARD
until eventually he found employment in Soham?
MAXINE CARR
yes.
MR HUBBARD
let's think about the allegation levelled against him
before you met him?
MAXINE CARR
okay.
MR HUBBARD
how long after you met him did you learn about this?
MAXINE CARR
not very long. a week, two weeks.
MR HUBBARD
tell us, as best you remember, how he described it to
you?
MAXINE CARR
well basically it was brought about because he had found
out I had an eating disorder. I didn't want to go out
for a meal with him and my mum disclosed to him that I
had anorexia.
MR HUBBARD
we don't want too much detail, I am asking you specifically
about this allegation, don't worry about describing the
circumstances in too much detail. just tell us what he
said to you about it?
MAXINE CARR
he told me he had been accused of raping a girl in Grimsby
and he had been sent to the Woodhill prison and then sent
to a bail hostel in Scunthorpe and then, after all that,
the ordeal he went through and his family was put through,
he told me that the police disclosed CCTV evidence that
proved that he wasn't there at the time of the rape in
February.
MR HUBBARD
did he tell you the effect that had on him?
MAXINE CARR
he virtually said he had a nervous breakdown and his family
- his mum - was distraught.
MR HUBBARD
did you notice anything about him over the years that
you were with him?
MAXINE CARR
in what way do you mean?
MR HUBBARD
did he ever refer back to that allegation?
MAXINE CARR
when he talked about it, he would say the police would
always be after him for something because they couldn't
pin him down to that rape, they had it in for him.
MR HUBBARD
how often would he bring the subject up?
MAXINE CARR
quite often. he you know, it was something very important
to him, he had been wrongfully accused of something. its
not nice to be accused of raping somebody.
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