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13/11/03 - Soham Trial Transcript
Thursday, 13 November 2003
SKY News
MR LATHAM is the chief prosecutor and MR JUSTICE
MOSES is the judge.
Other witnesses and lawyers are introduced.
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03 04
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MR JUSTICE MOSES
Yes, MR LATHAM.
MR LATHAM
My Lord, the Jury will appreciate that yesterday we were
dealing with the movements of the two girls. We are now
moving on today to movement and contacts, essentially
with Mr Huntley. What the Jury may find from time to time
it would assist them to refer to the chronology. I will
occasionally mention a pick entry. Do not do that with
the first witness, but the Jury will soon pick up what
is going on. I'm going to start with BENJAMIN
HICKLING, please.
MR LATHAM
Mr Hickling, if I may start with your full name, please?
BENJAMIN HICKLING
BENJAMIN
HICKLING.
MR LATHAM
Mr Hickling, I think you are the Managing Director of
a company, are you?
BENJAMIN HICKLING
I am.
MR LATHAM
What is the name of the company?
BENJAMIN
HICKLING
Surrey Take Films Limited.
MR LATHAM
I think are you a supplier and installer of window films
that are stuck on to glass?
BENJAMIN
HICKLING
That is correct.
MR LATHAM
And I think in the mid-1990s, new Health and Safety Regulations
came into force, relating to glass, and required certain
types of glass, particularly in public buildings, to comply
with the Regulations and that meant that existing glass
sometimes needed a film placing over it to comply with
precisely that?
BENJAMIN HICKLING
That is correct.
MR LATHAM
I think in an effort to find business your company reviews
public buildings and assesses whether or not they are
in compliance. As part of that exercise, did your company
decide to approach a number of schools in Cambridgeshire?
BENJAMIN HICKLING
We did.
MR LATHAM
And in early 2002 did you make arrangements to visit a
number of sites?
BENJAMIN HICKLING
Yes, we did.
MR LATHAM
I would like you, if you will, please, just to have look
at an internal company document, a photocopy will do.
In particular, if you look at the bottom right hand corner
and find page 24; is that a document you have seen before?
BENJAMIN HICKLING
It is.
MR LATHAM
Does it relate to a series of appointments that you made----
MR JUSTICE MOSES
This is not controversial , is it?
MR
LATHAM
It is not, your Honour. I can take it as quickly as possible.
A series of points made on 21st March this year?
BENJAMIN HICKLING
It is.
MR LATHAM
Does that include Soham Village College?
BENJAMIN
HICKLING
It does.
MR LATHAM
I think you have been expecting to see the Vice Principal
of the college, but in the event you met the caretaker?
BENJAMIN HICKLING
We did.
MR LATHAM
I think moving on from March to August, did there come
a time when you saw on television some material relating
to the disappearance of the two girls who were linked
with Soham and the Village College?
BENJAMIN
HICKLING
Yes.
MR LATHAM
And did you see one individual in particular, Ian Huntley,
who was shown on television?
BENJAMIN
HICKLING
I did.
MR LATHAM
And were you able to say whether or not you had met that
man personally?
BENJAMIN HICKLING
I recognised him straight away, yes.
MR
LATHAM
Was he the man you dealt with on 21st March?
BENJAMIN HICKLING
He was.
MR LATHAM
I do not want to ask you about glazing, glass and so on,
disappointing as it may be to you; can I turn to other
matters? I think he showed you round the site, didn't
he?
BENJAMIN HICKLING
He did.
MR LATHAM
About how long were you with him?
BENJAMIN
HICKLING
Most of the meetings we had took about an hour.
MR LATHAM
Apart from talking about glass and windows, did you have
what might be described as a more general and personal
chat with him as you were walking round?
BENJAMIN
HICKLING
We did, we tried to make a good impression, get on with
people, in order for them to like us and to produce the
business, yes.
MR LATHAM
Did he tell you where he came from?
BENJAMIN
HICKLING
He said he came from Grimsby.
MR LATHAM
And did he go on to tell you why, or one of the reasons
why, he had taken this particular job in Cambridgeshire
rather than continuing to work in Grimsby?
BENJAMIN
HICKLING
He did, he said there wasn't a lot of work in Grimsby
and he had family that lived near the area and he had
a great interest in aeroplanes, near Lakenheath.
MR LATHAM
So he mentioned Lakenheath?
BENJAMIN
HICKLING
He did.
MR LATHAM
Have you in fact done work at Lakenheath?
BENJAMIN
HICKLING
I have, yes.
MR LATHAM
So you are familiar with it?
BENJAMIN
HICKLING
Yes.
MR LATHAM
Did you make some observation regarding Lakenheath, and
he said he had an interest?
BENJAMIN
HICKLING
Yes, I said I had an interest in aeroplanes and he said
did as well.
MR LATHAM
What did he say?
BENJAMIN HICKLING
He said he had a great interest.
MR
LATHAM
A great interest? After you had broken the ice and that
topic had arisen, what was the main topic of conversation
as you moved around the site?
BENJAMIN
HICKLING
As we talked around the site it was to do with going up
to Lakenheath. He has found an area that he very often
goes to, you are not supposed to go down there, a very
quiet area.
MR LATHAM
Can we take it in stages, so he started to talk to you,
tell you about a particular area in Lakenheath as---?
BENJAMIN HICKLING
He did.
MR LATHAM
What was he using that area for?
BENJAMIN
HICKLING
To see the planes take off.
MR LATHAM
To see them take off?
BENJAMIN HICKLING
Yes.
MR LATHAM
And what - take it in stages, what did he describe about
this area?
BENJAMIN HICKLING
It was an area that you are not supposed to go down. It
was an area where people go to, to see the aeroplanes.
It was an area where he spent a lot of time; it was an
area that he enjoyed going to because of his interest
in planes.
MR LATHAM
Did he indicate whether, on the occasions he went to that
particular place that he found, there were others there
or whether it was quiet when he went there?
BENJAMIN HICKLING
He said he would say that no-one ever goes down there.
MR LATHAM
Was he talking in the singular or the pleural when he
talked about going down there?
BENJAMIN
HICKLING
He said "we", I do remember that he said we.
MR LATHAM
Did he ever say who the other person was, the we was?
BENJAMIN HICKLING
No.
MR LATHAM
Did you meet Maxine Carr on the occasion that you went
to the site?
BENJAMIN HICKLING
No.
MR LATHAM
Or, indeed, had you ever met her before you saw her on
television in relation to the broadcasts that were going
on?
BENJAMIN HICKLING
No (inaudible).
MR LATHAM
Indeed, during the time you were talking to Mr Huntley
on that day in March, did he ever mention his partner
or mention Maxine Carr?
BENJAMIN HICKLING
He mentioned his girlfriend but it was, it wasn't for
very long.
MR LATHAM
Right.
BENJAMIN HICKLING
He didn't mention any names.
MR LATHAM
Mr Hickling, thank you very much, would you wait there.
MR COWARD
I have no questions Mr Hickling.
MR
HUBBARD
You were with Mr MARCUS BULL?
BENJAMIN
HICKLING
Yes.
MR HUBBARD
He was joint Managing Director with you at time?
BENJAMIN HICKLING
Yes.
MR HUBBARD
He was present when this conversation took place?
BENJAMIN HICKLING
He was.
MR HUBBARD
I only ask this as I apprehend he will be here. Are you
sure that Mr Huntley said we?
BENJAMIN
HICKLING
I'm sure.
MR HUBBARD
Did you ever discuss with him Mr Bull?
BENJAMIN
HICKLING
No.
MR HUBBARD
I have.
MR LATHAM
I have no reexamination.
MR LATHAM
My Lord I had not intended to call Mr Bull but I can do
if---.
MR HUBBARD
Or his statement can be read.
MR JUSTICE
MOSES
Thank you very much.
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