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13/11/03 - Soham Trial Transcript
Thursday, 13 November 2003
SKY News
MR LATHAM is the chief prosecutor and MR JUSTICE
MOSES is the judge.
Other witnesses and lawyers are introduced.
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MR LATHAM
Mary Norman please. MARY WATKINS, I'm sorry
(MARY
WATKINS, SWORN)
Examined by
MR LATHAM.
MR LATHAM
Mrs Watkins could you give us your full name, please?
MARY WATKINS
Mary (inaudible) Watkins.
MR LATHAM
Make sure I can hear then everybody else will be able
to hear, it is a very large room. Mrs Watkins, as Mary
Norman as you were in August last year, I think you were
working as a barmaid at the sports centre in Soham on
the Sunday evening, 4th August weren't you?
MARY WATKINS
Yes, I was.
MR LATHAM
And had your then fiance, now husband, came over with
you that evening, not to work but just to spend time in
the bar while you were working there?
MARY
WATKINS
Yes, he had.
MR LATHAM
At the end of the evening were you responsible for locking
up the bar and then coming down to help secure the premises?
MARY WATKINS
Yes, I was.
MR LATHAM
As you came downstairs from the bar at the end of the
evening was there someone else who turned up that you
knew?
MARY WATKINS
Yes, there was .
MR LATHAM
Who was that?
MARY WATKINS
That was MARK ABBOTT.
MR LATHAM
Were you there when
MARK ABBOTT
first explained the reason for his being at the premises?
MARY WATKINS
Yes, I was.
MR LATHAM
What was it that he explained to you?
MARY
WATKINS
He said the two girls were missing.
MR
LATHAM
Did he give any further details at all of those two girls
apart from the bald statement that there are two girls
missing?
MARY WATKINS
I can't remember.
MR LATHAM
Who else was there apart from Mark and your fiance, anyone
else present?
MARY WATKINS
WAYNE SHORT was there.
MR LATHAM
WAYNE SHORT. As a result of Mark giving you the information
about the two missing girls, what did you as a group decide
to do?
MARY WATKINS
We decided to go and have a look for them.
MR
LATHAM
You had gone there in one car, Mark had turned up in his
own car, I think; did you all go in one car or did you
split up when you left the sport centre?
MARY
WATKINS
We split up.
MR LATHAM
And you went in which car?
MARY WATKINS
I went in our car with Wayne and Johnny went in Mark's
car with Mark.
MR LATHAM
On the way out of the sports centre as you locked up and
set off to start helping to search, by that stage did
you have any idea of who you were searching for or what
they looked like?
MARY WATKINS
not really, no.
MR LATHAM
did you see anyone before you got to the car as you set
off in order to conduct this search?
MARY
WATKINS
yes, we did.
MR LATHAM
was that somebody who on that night you knew at all -
or was that person a complete stranger?
MARY
WATKINS
a complete stranger.
MR LATHAM
did you become involved in any conversation, either directly
or close enough to hear it, with that stranger?
MARY WATKINS
I didn't speak at all.
MR LATHAM
you didn't speak at all?
MARY WATKINS
no.
MR LATHAM
how far away from the others, or any of the others, were
you when that conversation took place?
MARY
WATKINS
a metre or two.
MR LATHAM
sorry.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
a metre or two.
MR LATHAM
could you hear what was being said?
MARY
WATKINS
no.
MR LATHAM
you couldn't?
MARY WATKINS
no.
MR LATHAM
who was talking with this stranger?
MARY
WATKINS
I can't remember.
MR LATHAM
how long did any conversation take place?
MARY
WATKINS
a minute or so.
MR LATHAM
did the stranger have anything with him?
MARY
WATKINS
he had a dog.
MR LATHAM
did you then get into the car and set off and start searching,
you with Wayne?
MARY WATKINS
Yes.
MR LATHAM
by that time did you know who you were looking for?
MARY WATKINS
only two little girls.
MR LATHAM
did you later drive back into the area of the school at
some later stage that night?
MARY WATKINS
yes, we did.
MR LATHAM
what sort of time was that?
MARY WATKINS
around half past three, four o'clock.
MR
LATHAM
and did you go there for any purpose?
MARY
WATKINS
we went there to look at the CCTV cameras.
MR
LATHAM
did you go into the premises to the reception area where
the equipment, the recording equipment is installed?
MARY WATKINS
yes, we did.
MR LATHAM
and who is we?
MARY WATKINS
Johnny, Jonathan Watkins, MARK ABBOTT, and two police
officers.
MR LATHAM
right. So that's five of you?
MARY WATKINS
yes.
MR LATHAM
I take it you were reviewing the tape for that evening,
were you?
MARY WATKINS
yes, we were.
MR LATHAM
as best you could. did you see anyone while that was going
on or at any stage before you left the building again
and, presumably, locked it up again?
MARY
WATKINS
yes, we did.
MR LATHAM
when?
MARY WATKINS
I'm not sure what time it was.
MR LATHAM
but in relation to what you were all doing?
MARY WATKINS
whilst we were watching the camera.
MR
LATHAM
while you were watching. who did you see?
MARY
WATKINS
we were later told it was the caretaker of the school.
MR LATHAM
do you remember who told you that is the caretaker?
MARY WATKINS
MARK ABBOTT.
MR LATHAM
had you seen that man before that time in the sports centre
with the CCTV or not?
MARY WATKINS
he was the person we saw when he came out----
MR LATHAM
He was the stranger spoken to earlier?
MARY
WATKINS
Yes.
MR LATHAM
Where was the stranger the second time you saw him while
you were reviewing the CCTV tape?
MARY
WATKINS
He was in the reception area.
MR LATHAM
How long was he there for while you were doing this review?
MARY WATKINS
I can't remember.
MR LATHAM
Can you remember if he was saying anything on that occasion?
MARY WATKINS
I'm not sure.
MR LATHAM
Thank you very much. Would you wait there, please.
MR COWARD
I have no questions, my Lord.
MR LATHAM
Thank you very much
(the witness withdrew).
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