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14/11/03 - Soham Trial Transcript
Friday, 14 November 2003
SKY News
MR LATHAM is the chief prosecutor and MR JUSTICE
MOSES is the judge.
Other witnesses and lawyers are introduced.
Page 01 02
03 04
05 06
07 08
MR LATHAM
STUART SMITH, please, page 1079, my Lord.
(STUART SMITH, SWORN)
MR LATHAM
I think someone came into the pub and announced something?
STUART SMITH
Yes they came in and told us two young girls had gone
missing.
MR LATHAM
Shortly after that were you aware of a helicopter up over
Soham?
STUART SMITH
There was a helicopter over the industrial estate with
a search being there on the estate.
MR
LATHAM
Did you leave the pub as a group as you had been in the
pub and walk into Sand Street?
STUART
SMITH
Yes, sir, I did.
MR LATHAM
The Jury is familiar with the geography. As you walked
along Sand Street you come to the entrance of the Beechurst
site of the school area, don't you?
STUART
SMITH
yes, that's correct.
MR LATHAM
as you arrived there, was there a group of people congregating?
STUART SMITH
yes, there was members of the public and the police.
MR LATHAM
did you join that group and shortly after that were you
given some instructions?
STUART SMITH
yes, we was asked if we could congregate into groups and
search round Soham.
MR LATHAM
was there an officer who seemed to be in charge?
STUART SMITH
there was a female officer.
MR LATHAM
I think your group carried on up Sand Street, didn't you?
STUART SMITH
that's correct.
MR LATHAM
where did you go as you walked up Sand Street, did you
stay on the road or leave it?
STUART
SMITH
we walked up until the road joins the College car park
at Lodeside where my wife and my colleague's wife continued
to walk alongside the river and we walked to the left,
which brings you round the front of Lodeside.
MR LATHAM
did you go to Gidney Lane?
STUART SMITH
yes, we did.
MR LATHAM
so Sand Street, the cul de sac, Gidney Lane?
STUART SMITH
yes.
MR LATHAM
do I understand you then split up into two groups?
STUART SMITH
at Lodeside you have got a big grass area then you have
got a car park area which runs alongside the river, then
the road runs round, like a roundabout. My wife and her
friend walked on the road beside the river and me and
my friend walked round the front of the school.
MR LATHAM
where did you end up that at that point?
STUART
SMITH
ended up just at the edge of Mr Huntley's garden.
MR LATHAM
were you fairly familiar with this site before that night?
STUART SMITH
Yes, I went to that school for five years of my life.
MR LATHAM
yes. As a resident of Soham, as an adult, have you used
that area on foot on occasions or not?
STUART
SMITH
I have used that area over my entire life.
MR
LATHAM
were you aware on that night of number 5? Did you know
what it was?
STUART SMITH
I knew it was the caretaker's cottage.
MR
LATHAM
did you on that night know who the caretaker was, who
lived there?
STUART SMITH
no, I didn't.
MR LATHAM
right. If you didn't know his name, would you have recognised
him if you had seen him out on the streets?
STUART SMITH
no, I wouldn't.
MR LATHAM
what were you doing, either individually or as a group
as you were walking around the front part of the Lodeside
site?
STUART SMITH
we was looking in the bushes, calling out the girls' names,
at the tops of our voices.
MR LATHAM
so you knew the two girls names?
STUART
SMITH
yes.
MR LATHAM
when you got to the caretaker's house there is a pavement
which runs round the edge of the house and, indeed, leads
on round so if you are a driver you would go out of the
site and up College Road?
STUART SMITH
That's correct.
MR LATHAM
At the front of that house, what was the layout in August
last year, the pavement and then what?
STUART
SMITH
Then there was an area where a vehicle was parked normally.
Whenever I have been to the sports hall I have seen a
vehicle parked on the road, or the----
MR
LATHAM
Here is a photograph. Does that help you?
STUART
SMITH
Yes.
MR LATHAM
You say an area where a vehicle is parked. You go to the
sports centre, do you, or did you in 2002?
STUART
SMITH
On numerous occasions, yes.
MR LATHAM
On foot or driving?
STUART SMITH
Drive, on foot, with friends,.
MR LATHAM
I don't think there was a fence round the front of this
house, was there?
STUART SMITH
No, or no front wall, no.
MR LATHAM
Open ground from road, pavement, grass, paving slabs and
up to the very front of the house as we see. On the occasions
that you had been past that house, either on foot or in
your car, during 2002 up to this night, you mentioned
cars or a car parked there. Do you remember what sort
of car?
STUART SMITH
A red Fiesta.
MR LATHAM
A red Fiesta. How often would you have seen that car parked
there?
STUART SMITH
I couldn't say for sure how often but most occasions probably
when I went to the sports hall it would have been there.
MR LATHAM
Do you remember which way it would park in relation to
the house?
STUART SMITH
Facing the house.
MR LATHAM
And the bonnet, how far from the front door?
STUART SMITH
I would say probably 5 foot maximum.
MR
LATHAM
As you got to the pavement area immediately in front of
the house, did you notice anything about the house?
STUART SMITH
The house, there was no lights on.
MR
LATHAM
No lights on? What about outside the house?
STUART SMITH
There was no car there.
MR LATHAM
Did you, in fact, just remain on the pavement?
STUART SMITH
No, I stopped and I was caught short and took a leak up
Mr Huntley's fence as I now know it is.
MR
LATHAM
In doing that where can you show us in the photograph
where you walked?
STUART SMITH
It was to the left-hand side. Walked straight across the
front lawn to where my wife and my partner's (inaudible)
was.
MR LATHAM
What sort of time do you think it was?
STUART
SMITH
Between 12 and 12.30.
MR LATHAM
Did you stay throughout your search on the college site
or did you move around?
STUART SMITH
No, we searched the whole of Soham , I searched every
nook and cranny I had ever been to as a child.
MR LATHAM
Mr Smith, give us a picture, if you will, while you were
walking around Soham. You started off as group of how
many?
STUART SMITH
Four.
MR LATHAM
Four, and you- occasionally you have said already you
broke into two pairs and then met up again ?
STUART SMITH
that's right.
MR LATHAM
did the four of you continue the task together throughout
the night or did some of you go?
STUART
SMITH
The week continued virtually until the point we got back
to the College with my friend then he split off from me
and the two girls and he went back down College Road back
into Lodeside with STEPHEN JARVIS .
MR
LATHAM
so the four of you have been, as it were, working together
up to the point that you eventually got back to the rendezvous
site?
STUART SMITH
just before the rendezvous site.
MR
LATHAM
what time did you get back to the rendezvous site?
STUART SMITH
about three o'clock.
MR LATHAM
that means with your going it is about three hours or
so before you get back to the rendezvous site?
STUART SMITH
correct.
MR LATHAM
before you were walking through the Lodeside site, the
school site and through the surrounding streets of Soham,
did you see anyone else or were you just the whole time
on your own?
STUART SMITH
No, we crossed paths with people constantly the whole
night, people searching over the same areas time and time
again.
MR LATHAM
are we talking about a dozen people or 20 or what - give
us a picture?
STUART SMITH
numerous, numerous people.
MR LATHAM
when you got back to the Beechurst site area where there
was this rendezvous point did you actually go into that
area again about 3.15, 3.30 in the morning?
STUART SMITH
where all the policeman were.
MR LATHAM
yes?
STUART SMITH
yes, I stayed there.
MR LATHAM
by then was the police presence the same or greater?
STUART SMITH
greater by the point we got back.
MR
LATHAM
did you in fact see somebody you knew - you may have seen
somebody you knew - but one person in particular did you
notice at that stage?
STUART SMITH
I was sat on the front of the police van and Mr Chapman
was stood to my left-hand side.
MR LATHAM
did you know him?
STUART SMITH
I didn't know him at the time.
MR LATHAM
did you see someone else that you noticed when you were
back at the group?
STUART SMITH
I saw a gentleman stood at the back of the group of everybody
searching, holding a long-haired black alsatian.
MR LATHAM
at the time did you know that person or recognise that
person?
STUART SMITH
no, I didn't.
MR LATHAM
there was obviously in the ensuing days after the early
hours of that Sunday night, Monday morning, a huge amount
of publicity both local and national. Can you help at
all with who you believe that person was that you started
to describe?
STUART SMITH
it was Ian Huntley, I later found.
MR
LATHAM
can you just describe how he was behaving in relation
to how others were behaving as you were all congregating?
STUART SMITH
the rest of us were congregating in little groups and
talking to each other, but Mr Huntley kept himself away
from the main group most of the time.
MR
LATHAM
Thank you. Will you wait there, please
(CROSS-EXAMINED).
MR COWARD
Mr Smith you described the events of that night. You have
told us what time it was that you got to the college site.
At 12, 12.30, is the best estimate you can give?
STUART SMITH
Yes.
MR COWARD
You didn't actually look at your watch?
STUART
SMITH
No.
MR COWARD
At any time you were near the caretakers house?
STUART SMITH
No.
MR COWARD
So far that is latest sighting of the man with the dog.
What time do you say that was?
STUART
SMITH
It would have been about 3, 3.15.
MR
COWARD
Again, that is your working out as best you can?
STUART SMITH
No, I'm doing that at the time because I looked at my,
who is it we spoke to, my father in law turned up and
he had been searching as well and he told us it was 3.15
roughly.
MR COWARD
He said?
STUART SMITH
He said it was 3.15 and I think it was about 3.45 I finally
finished searching and went.
MR COWARD
You say you saw police officers on the college site?
STUART SMITH
Yes.
MR COWARD
Did you see a police woman with a dog at any time?
STUART SMITH
No, I didn't.
MR COWARD
Were you on constantly on the site between the time of
your arrival and half past three?
STUART
SMITH
No, I wasn't.
MR COWARD
Where did you go in between?
STUART
SMITH
We searched all around Soham .
MR COWARD
I have before me a statement of yours dated 24th September
of 2002, so we are seven weeks after the night in question?
STUART SMITH
Right.
MR COWARD
Was that the first time you approached the police or did
they approach you?
STUART SMITH
They contacted me.
MR COWARD
They contacted you?
STUART SMITH
Yes.
MR COWARD
And that was contact on the 24th, was it, the same day
as you gave the statement?
STUART SMITH
I can't remember.
MR COWARD
But within a day or two at most?
STUART
SMITH
Yes.
MR COWARD
They speak with you?
STUART SMITH
Yes, I believe they spoke to my friend first and he gave
them my telephone number and they spoke to me after them.
MR COWARD
That's your friend Mr Powell?
STUART
SMITH
Mr Powell, yes.
MR COWARD
So that was the first time you ever committed to writing
what you remembered of what had happened on the night
of 4th/5th August?
STUART SMITH
Yes.
MR COWARD
You see, the reason I ask you that , I suggest, Mr Smith,
that in fact, - you may not have noticed it - but in fact,
the red Fiesta was outside Mr Huntley's house, certainly
from half past ten right through the night until six o'clock
in the morning ?
STUART SMITH
No, sir, it wasn't.
MR COWARD
When do you say was the first time that it struck you
as of any significance?
STUART SMITH
not until I actually spoke to the police about it and
went through with them and told them exactly what had
happened that night, what my movements had been - and
that was it, I gave them a statement.
MR
COWARD
so seven weeks later you were able to tell them positively
that you did not see something?
STUART
SMITH
basically, sir, I walked across his lawn; if the car had
been there I wouldn't have been able to do this, sir.
MR COWARD
I suggest, Mr Smith, that you are inaccurate in that,
that that red car was there all the time ?
STUART
SMITH
no, it wasn't, sir.
MR COWARD
thank you.
MR HUBBARD
no questions.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
thank you very much, Mr Smith.
MR LATHAM
thank you very much.
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