14/11/03 - Soham Trial Transcript
Friday, 14 November 2003
SKY News
MR LATHAM is the chief prosecutor and MR JUSTICE
MOSES is the judge.
Other witnesses and lawyers are introduced.
Page 01 02
03 04
05 06
07 08
MR LATHAM
my Lord, I understand a break is requested.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
can we have it shorter than yesterday?
(short
adjournment)
MR LATHAM
DAVID HOBBS, please page 7 of the chronology.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
thank you very much
(DAVID HOBBS,sworn
Examined by MR LATHAM .)
MR
LATHAM
Mr Hobbs, your name, please?
DAVID HOBBS
David Mark Hobbs.
MR LATHAM
Mr Hobbs, I think you live in the area of Soham and you
are a retained firefighter for the town, is that correct?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
on the evening of Sunday, 4th August last year, I think
you had been out with a group of people to Cambridge in
fact to the cinema, hadn't you?
DAVID
HOBBS
Yes.
MR LATHAM
on your way back in a car to Soham, did you travel along
the High Street sometime around 11.30 at night?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
as as you drove through the High Street did you notice
something?
DAVID HOBBS
I noticed there was a lot of people in police cars round
the streets.
MR LATHAM
I take it rather unusual for a Sunday evening in Soham
at 11.30?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
I think, being a retained fireman, you have to book on
as being a available for duty, don't you?
DAVID
HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
That night did you go to the fire station in Fountain
Lane to do precisely that?
DAVID HOBBS
yes, that's not in fact to go on duty, that is to indicate
you are available to go on duty if required
MR LATHAM
coming back from the fire station did you also appreciate
there was a police helicopter engaged and, as a result,
start to make inquiries about what was going on?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
what were you told?
DAVID HOBBS
we were told there were two young girls missing.
MR LATHAM
"two young girls
missing." You were given the identities of either
or both of them at that stage?
DAVID
HOBBS
We were told one of them was Kevin Wells' daughter.
MR LATHAM
did you know Kevin Wells?
DAVID HOBBS
I have known of him but never spoke to him.
MR LATHAM
you then went to your girlfriend's home and there was
a conversation there; did you decide that you would go
along and help them ?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
and did you start by driving around a number of streets?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
and then back to Clay Street where you found a group of
people who were also doing what you had been doing, but
they were on foot, looking for the two girls?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
I think that was near Budgens Supermarket, wasn't it?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
the Jury may remember that, driving towards the library,
walking back towards where you parked your car, did you
recognise another retained firefighter who was on foot?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
who was that?
DAVID HOBBS
STEPHEN JARVIS .
MR LATHAM
and was there at that point mention of a particular place
near the Primary School which might be of concern to those
searching?
DAVID HOBBS
yes, a swimming pool.
MR LATHAM
a swimming pool. the only available lighting was the odd
torch and the street-lighting or other sodium lighting
around the area, correct?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
did you decide to do something?
DAVID
HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
What was that?
DAVID HOBBS
to go back to the fire station and pick up some torches
from there.
MR LATHAM
and you have obviously got some powerful working lighting,
portable lighting, available at the fire station. Did
you drive back to Steve Jarvis's house to tell his family
that he was going to go out to help and won't be home
for a time?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
then to the fire station to get the lighting?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
Can you help with approximately what time it would have
been once you have done all that, what I have just been
through with you, from the time you came back into Soham
from the cinema to the time you are ready to start searching
with the lighting you have acquired?
DAVID
HOBBS
approximately two o'clock.
MR LATHAM
now, you lived in Soham all your life?
DAVID
HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
do I take it therefore you went to the Soham Village College?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
so you would be familiar with the geography?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
having got the lighting, where did you drive when you
came back towards the centre from the fire station?
DAVID HOBBS
I drove to the Lodeside car park.
MR
LATHAM
now, by the Lodeside car park - do you mean this sort
of area with the turning circle in the centre of the----?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
there is a row of parking bays, isn't there, in that area,
so you drove your car to there, did you?
DAVID
HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
as you parked the car, did you see someone?
DAVID HOBBS
I noticed a figure in a doorway.
MR
LATHAM
keep your voice up you noticed a figure?
DAVID
HOBBS
in a doorway of the caretaker's house.
MR
LATHAM
did that figure remain at the doorway?
DAVID
HOBBS
no, he walked towards us as we got out the car.
MR LATHAM
and indeed, about that time did someone else join you
apart from this figure you have just described?
DAVID HOBBS
there was two others searching with us.
MR
LATHAM
had they been in your car or had they----?
DAVID
HOBBS
no.
MR LATHAM
----arrived by car at the same time or had they just joined
you on foot as your car turned up?
DAVID
HOBBS
they joined us on foot.
MR LATHAM
so had you became a group of four by that stage?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
a figure had left the front of the house and come towards
you; did that figure come right up to you?
DAVID
HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
on that night, did you know who that person was?
DAVID HOBBS
not by name.
MR LATHAM
did you recognise him though - even if you didn't know
his name?
DAVID HOBBS
I had never seen him before.
MR LATHAM
you had never seen him before?
DAVID
HOBBS
no.
MR LATHAM
I understand there is no dispute. I think, as the days
progressed after this night, you appreciated the person
that I'm going to ask you about now was in fact Ian Huntley,
did you not?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
did you get involved in a conversation with him?
DAVID HOBBS
very general.
MR LATHAM
very general, but did you also spend some time with him
from then onwards?
DAVID HOBBS
not personally, just among the group.
MR
LATHAM
you say "general" conversation did you, in fact
- were there things said?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
as best you could remember----
MR JUSTICE
MOSES
sorry to interrupt, make sure you all hear this.
MR LATHAM
talk to me, and then I think we'll all be able to hear
direct your answers to me. as best you can recollect,
just tell us what was said in your own words?
DAVID HOBBS
he said there was two girls gone missing.
MR
LATHAM
who said that?
DAVID HOBBS
Ian Huntley.
MR LATHAM
Ian Huntley said, "There are two girls that have
gone missing"?
DAVID HOBBS
yes, both wearing red tops, one had blonde hair and one
had brown hair.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
Both wearing red tops, one blonde one brown hair?
DAVID HOBBS
Yes.
MR LATHAM
That came from Mr Huntley did it, to you?
DAVID
HOBBS
Yes.
MR LATHAM
Did you in fact know that by then or not that that was
the situation?
DAVID HOBBS
I knew there were two girls missing but I didn't know
what they were wearing.
MR LATHAM
All you knew when you arrived with your lamps at the site
was that you were going to be searching for two girls,
did you know the sort of age of them ?
DAVID
HOBBS
Yes.
MR LATHAM
What sort of age did you understand them to be?
DAVID HOBBS
9.
MR LATHAM
But you knew nothing about their appearance at that stage?
DAVID HOBBS
No.
MR LATHAM
Carry on, what did you say, by you, you or anyone, of
the other three who you were with?
DAVID
HOBBS
I can't remember what I said.
MR LATHAM
All right. Did I stay where you were or just move away
to start doing something?
DAVID HOBBS
We were talking. We were moving round the school.
MR LATHAM
Moving around the school you say "we", how many
is we?
DAVID HOBBS
The four of us searching.
MR LATHAM
Mr Huntley stayed with you, did he?
DAVID
HOBBS
Yes.
MR LATHAM
Right. As you were moving round the school, was there
any conversation?
DAVID HOBBS
No personal conversation.
MR LATHAM
Sorry, I simply can't hear what you are saying, look at
me and talk to me?
DAVID HOBBS
No personal conversation, he was chatting to all of us.
MR LATHAM
Chatting to everyone. What was he talking about?
DAVID HOBBS
What the girls were wearing.
MR LATHAM
What the girls were wearing?
DAVID HOBBS
Yes.
MR LATHAM
Well, you have told us that he said they were wearing
red tops?
DAVID HOBBS
Yes.
MR LATHAM
Did he say anything else?
DAVID HOBBS
Told us what colour hair they had.
MR
LATHAM
The colour of their hair. Did he say anything else when
you were walking around?
DAVID HOBBS
When we got to Sand Street where the police congregate,
he said there was a lot of police activity.
MR LATHAM
There was a lot of police activity out or this sort of
thing. Sorry I am having to repeat as best I can. have
I got it right, is that what you said?
DAVID
HOBBS
Yes.
MR LATHAM
So that is what Mr Huntley said to you?
DAVID
HOBBS
Yes.
MR LATHAM
You made mention of the swimming pool. Did you in fact
go anywhere near the swimming pool that night?
DAVID HOBBS
Couldn't get in but we looked over the fence.
MR LATHAM
Did you use the dragon lights you had with you to do that?
DAVID HOBBS
Yes.
MR LATHAM
While you were searching the swimming pool area, where
was Mr Huntley, had you parted from him by then or was
he still with you?
DAVID HOBBS
he was with the group but we were spread out.
MR LATHAM
but with the group?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
when you say, "widely spread out" were you working
as a team, as it were, but not all standing shoulder to
shoulder is that what you are describing?
DAVID
HOBBS
around 20 feet away.
MR LATHAM
who was it who, as it were, was taking charge of your
group?
DAVID HOBBS
mainly me and Steve.
MR LATHAM
Steve Jarvis?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
during the course of this search, when Ian Huntley was
with you, did he tell you anything else that had happened?
DAVID HOBBS
not that I can remember. he said the two girls passed
his house.
MR LATHAM
I'm going to take this in stages, if I may. He said the
two girls had passed his house?
DAVID
HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
did he say when?
DAVID HOBBS
half past six.
MR LATHAM
now, you have seen him first of all come away from a building?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
When you first met up with him on that night?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
by the time he told you what you are just describing;
namely, that he had seen the girls at half past six, had
he indicated where he lived?
DAVID HOBBS
no.
MR LATHAM
so he had seen the girls at half past six - carry on where
had they been when he had seen them?
DAVID
HOBBS
outside the caretaker's house.
MR LATHAM
"outside the caretaker's house." did you know
who he was at that stage, what his job was?
DAVID HOBBS
he came out from the house so I just assumed he was the
caretaker.
MR LATHAM
the girls had passed his house about half six - did he
say what else?
DAVID HOBBS
carried on past towards the little footbridge across the
river.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
sorry, I didn't hear. you are here to give some evidence
which means don't keep it to yourself.
MR
LATHAM
it is the black microphone.
MR JUSTICE
MOSES
don't worry about the microphone, just speak up as if
you were on a fire ground.
MR LATHAM
you looked back at the map, there is a small bridge over
the Lode, isn't there, at the bottom of College Road?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
when he was describing a bridge, which bridge did you
understand he was talking about?
DAVID
HOBBS
the bridge (inaudible).
MR LATHAM
can you remember where you were when he gave you this
information, that he had seen the girls at half past six?
DAVID HOBBS
just left the swimming pool.
MR LATHAM
by that time, by the time you had been searching around
by the swimming pool area, how long do you think you were
with him?
DAVID HOBBS
it must have been an hour.
MR LATHAM
and during that period had he at any stage before that
told you that he had seen the girls?
DAVID
HOBBS
Just once.
MR LATHAM
From the time you first met him, you have been describing
this conversation that you had just had with him "I
saw the girls at half past six going past the house, they
went over the bridge." Where were you when he said
that to you?
DAVID HOBBS
I'm not sure.
MR LATHAM
What sort of stage during your search was this when he
told you this?
DAVID HOBBS
Around the swimming pool.
MR LATHAM
Round the swimming pool. You said that was about an hour
into your search?
DAVID HOBBS
Yes.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
What he actually said was he had left the swimming pool
area when he said that. We had been with him about an
hour.
MR LATHAM
What had you been doing during that hour, what had you
been occupied in doing?
DAVID HOBBS
Searching.
MR LATHAM
Had he before that at any time mentioned to you that he
had seen the girls?
DAVID HOBBS
Not that I can remember.
MR LATHAM
What was your response, or the response of anyone else
in your group, to this piece of information that he had
seen them at half past six?
DAVID HOBBS
Told him we were going to get back to wherever the police
were congregating, told him better tell the person in
charge.
MR LATHAM
While you were conducting your search during the hour
and he was with you, did he have anything with him?
DAVID HOBBS
He had his dog.
MR LATHAM
Was the dog on a lead or loose?
DAVID
HOBBS
It was loose.
MR LATHAM
You were trying to find the two girls?
DAVID
HOBBS
Yes.
MR LATHAM
When you got to the swimming pool and it was locked the
swimming pool area, you said you looked over the fence
in order to try and check the swimming pool using the
lamps and so on?
DAVID HOBBS
Yes.
MR LATHAM
When you were searching other places during the hour you
were doing your search, how were you doing the looking?
I mean, what - how much effort were you making?
DAVID HOBBS
Going through the bushes, trees and around surrounding
areas.
MR LATHAM
When you were going through bushes and trees, what were
you actually physically doing?
DAVID
HOBBS
Looking.
MR LATHAM
Looking about how were you looking? You got to some bushes,
how would you search the bushes?
DAVID
HOBBS
Shone the torch in, pull branches away.
MR
LATHAM
Pull the branches away?
DAVID HOBBS
Yes.
MR LATHAM
Actually getting into the bushes, is that what you are
saying?
DAVID HOBBS
With the torch.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
I am sorry. I must be getting old. Can you all hear, because
I am having great difficulty? no, they cannot hear, you
see, and you have been dragged down from Soham to recall
this night and tell them what you saw and heard, so it
is important that you tell them, would you? I wouldn't
be so harsh on most witnesses. So you are a retained fire
officer. tell them again how you searched the bushes?
DAVID HOBBS
pushed the branches away, shone the torch in.
MR LATHAM
you were actually physically----
DAVID
HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
----getting into things like that?
DAVID
HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
to do your search?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
that's what you were doing. what about your colleagues
who were with you also searching. Were they behaving,
when they were getting to a new place, area of bushes
or a corner of a yard or whatever on the site, how were
they behaving?
DAVID HOBBS
the same; searching around behind bushes.
MR
LATHAM
you told us Mr Huntley was with you while you were doing
this for around an hour on the site?
DAVID
HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
is that right?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
how was he behaving while you were searching bushes and
searching the corners of yards and so on?
DAVID
HOBBS
As if he was out walking the dog, but he stuck with the
group.
MR LATHAM
have you searched the swimming pool area and you were
given the new piece of information, the 6.30 piece of
information, did you end up back at the rendezvous point?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
was Mr Huntley with you when you finally went over to
the rendezvous point?
DAVID HOBBS
we went to the rendezvous point, and Mr Huntley went and
spoke to another group - he actually spoke to another
group.
MR LATHAM
So after that did you have any further involvement with
him on that night?
DAVID HOBBS
no.
MR LATHAM
right.
MR LATHAM
you described how you were when you and your colleagues
were doing this searching. did you want to find these
girls?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR LATHAM
how did you feel, at two or three in the morning, about
the fact that there were two, you believed 9 year-old
girls, missing at that time in the morning?
MR JUSTICE MOSES
I do not see that is a particularly relevant question.
it is pretty obvious and I don't think it carries (inaudible)
so ask something else.
MR LATHAM
how did Mr Huntley seem to you as you were going around
looking?
DAVID HOBBS
He seemed calm.
MR LATHAM
did you feel calm?
DAVID HOBBS
no.
MR LATHAM
thank you Mr Hobbs, would you wait there?
Cross-examined
by MR COWARD
MR COWARD
Mr Hobbs I don't know whether you are able to fix any
of the times of incidents that you speak about. Are there
any definite times that you can fix? For example, what
time did you get back into Soham?
DAVID
HOBBS
Half past 11.
MR COWARD
Half 11? You then go to the fire station to book on for
future duty?
DAVID HOBBS
Yes.
MR COWARD
How long are you at the fire station?
DAVID
HOBBS
About five minutes.
MR COWARD
You go back to the centre of Soham, because there are
a lot of people about, and you discover that there are
two girls missing?
DAVID HOBBS
Yes.
MR COWARD
Had you already discovered that at the fire station that
there were two girls missing?
DAVID
HOBBS
No.
MR COWARD
Do you know who you spoke to in town that told you there
were two girls missing?
DAVID HOBBS
No, just general public.
MR COWARD
Just the general public? As accurately as you can remember,
tell us what you gathered from the general public, everything
you learned about these girls?
DAVID
HOBBS
They just said there were two girls missing, 9 year olds,
and one of them was Kevin Wells' daughter.
MR
COWARD
Two girls missing, ten years old,.
MR
JUSTICE MOSES
9 years old.
MR COWARD
I'm sorry. One was Kevin Wells daughter?
DAVID
HOBBS
Yes.
MR COWARD
Kevin Wells used to have a sweet shop didn't he?
DAVID HOBBS
Yes.
MR COWARD
You had been in the sheet shop so you knew who he was?
DAVID HOBBS
Not to speak to.
MR COWARD
You could recognise him?
DAVID HOBBS
Yes.
MR COWARD
Having got that information you decided to take part in
the search?
DAVID HOBBS
Yes.
MR COWARD
And as I understand the sequence of events, you decided
you would drop your girlfriend off I think, her sister
was with you and her sister's boyfriend?
DAVID
HOBBS
Yes.
MR COWARD
You dropped them off at your girlfriend's house?
DAVID HOBBS
Yes.
MR COWARD
And you had a conversation with your girlfriend's parents
at the house, didn't you?
DAVID HOBBS
Yes.
MR COWARD
Tell us what they told you about these missing girls?
DAVID HOBBS
Just told us what they saw on the news, that there were
two young girls missing, both wearing red Manchester United
tops.
MR COWARD
They told you more fully, didn't they, than what you gathered
in the high street?
DAVID HOBBS
Yes.
MR COWARD
What extra things did they tell you?
DAVID
HOBBS
Manchester United red tops.
MR COWARD
Thank you. Before you went searching, you knew that the
girls that were missing were wearing red tops.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
Red Manchester United tops is what he said then.
MR COWARD
So you go to the college and you see a man standing on
his doorstep, sort of illuminated by the light of his
house with a mug in his hand?
DAVID
HOBBS
Yes.
MR COWARD
Just in front of the man with a mug in his hand as a red
car, wasn't there?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR COWARD
when you had gone back to the College with the dragon
lights, was there a particular area that you and Steve
Jarvis thought might be worth investigating?
DAVID HOBBS
one of the members of the group mentioned the school so
we started there.
MR COWARD
this swimming pool is at the back of St Andrew's school,
isn't it?
DAVID HOBBS
(inaudible)
MR COWARD
Sorry, I didn't hear that?
DAVID HOBBS
at the back around the side.
MR COWARD
around the side of the junior school?
DAVID
HOBBS
yes.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
around the side. Yes.
MR COWARD
and this man with the mug spoke to you when you parked,
and he came with you with his dog to the swimming pool,
didn't he ?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR COWARD
as well as trying to look into the swimming pool to see
if there was any sign of the girls there, you also looked
into bushes and trees around the area of the swimming
pool?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR COWARD
The man was still with you?
DAVID HOBBS
Yes.
MR COWARD
during that time when you were over at St Andrew's, the
question of the girls cropped up, didn't it - of what
they looked like and what they were wearing?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR COWARD
I suggest - I can't suggest who it was - but one of your
groups said something along the lines "well, they
have got red Man U tops on", and then at that stage
Mr Huntley said "I saw them by my house". That's
how it happened, isn't it?
DAVID HOBBS
not that I know of. As I say we was all spread out, each
one at a time.
MR COWARD
so you are all spread out?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR COWARD
and you remember, do you, that you had a conversation
with Mr Huntley with just the two of you there?
DAVID HOBBS
not just the two of us.
MR COWARD
who else was there when there was this important conversation?
DAVID HOBBS
Steve Jarvis.
MR COWARD
Steve Jarvis? that's how it went, isn't it? someone happened
to mention the girls were wearing red Manchester United
tops and the man that you thought was the caretaker said
"I saw them, passing my house"?
DAVID
HOBBS
yes.
MR COWARD
just one slight detail on top of that Mr Hobbs, might
it have been he said about six, about six o'clock, not
at 6.30?
DAVID HOBBS
he said at 6.30.
MR COWARD
your memory is 6.30? very well. I suppose there are a
number of things you could have done at that stage. One
was to continue with the searching as best you could;
another was to go straight to where the police were and
take the caretaker with you so he could tell the police
that he had seen the girls. you chose, didn't you, to
carry on searching ?
DAVID HOBBS
yes.
MR COWARD
You thought - I'm not being critical - you thought that
was the best thing to do?
DAVID HOBBS
Yes.
MR COWARD
Because by now it is- what time in the morning two -ish?
DAVID HOBBS
Two, half past two.
MR COWARD
And that's 8 and a half hours on your timing since he
said he had seen the girls, so you continued your search
and then you decide to go down to where the police were?
DAVID HOBBS
Yes.
MR COWARD
But when he told you that he had seen the girls at his
house, you said something to him, didn't you, you or Steve
Jarvis maybe. You said "When we go to meet up with
everybody, - all the police and everybody - you had better
tell the police what you told us".?
DAVID
HOBBS
Yes.
MR COWARD
The search continues. At the end of the searching you
had no-one and you set off walking down to where the police
were?
DAVID HOBBS
Yes.
MR COWARD
About what time do you reckon it was when got to where
the police post was?
DAVID HOBBS
Approximately three o'clock.
MR COWARD
Approximately three o'clock? When you got to where the
police was, did any of your group speak to the police
about what the caretaker had said?
DAVID
HOBBS
No.
MR COWARD
Are you sure about that?
DAVID HOBBS
Its my recollection, yes.
MR COWARD
I wonder whether you could have, please, Mr Hobbs, a copy
of the statement of 20th August. If you turn to the last
page, 1094 in the bottom right hand corner, you talked
at the bottom of page 3 that you "Became aware that
the man with the German Shepherd dog was no longer around
the area at about three o'clock in the morning."
Then it reads on as follows "At about 3.20 am, a
police officer gave us all a verbal summary of the last
known whereabouts of the two missing girls. She ... "
- so a female officer stated the girls walked past, did
she not? And also "Had been seen walking past the
sports hall. However, the officer did not mention that
the girls walked past what I believe to be the caretakers
house, at 6.30 that evening." Then this "I spoke
to the officer who was female and appeared to be in charge.",
(including reading out the summary), "I told her
that a man with a dog, who had been searching with us,
had told us that the girls had walked past his house walking
towards the river. I told the officer that the man was
from the caretaker's house and had told him to let the
police know about his sighting of the two girls".
had you written that?
DAVID HOBBS
That was later on. That was later, after we turned up,
we didn't speak to the police straight away until ater
on in the evening.
MR COWARD
But you did speak to the police officer?
DAVID
HOBBS
yes.
MR COWARD
the man with the dog did not say to you when you were
searching, did he, I did see the girls but don't tell
anybody?
DAVID HOBBS
no.
MR COWARD
he just told you what he had seen?
DAVID
HOBBS
yes.
MR COWARD
thank you, Mr Hobbs.
MR LATHAM
no re-examination.
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