| Flowers in Gods Garden - Holly Wells
and Jessica Chapman - Documents |
17/11/03 - Soham Trial Transcript
Monday, 17 November 2003
SKY News
Richard Latham is the chief prosecutor; his colleague
on the prosecution team is Karim Khalil QC.
Stephen Coward QC is Ian Huntley's defence barrrister.Mr
Justice Moses is the judge.
Other witnesses and lawyers are introduced as they appear.
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MR KHALIL
Just 5 College Close?
LORRAINE BARNES
That's----.
MR COWARD
Were you aware that Ian Huntley was the caretaking manager
or site manager of the school?
LORRAINE BARNES
Yes.
MR KHALIL
And Maxine Carr was a teaching assistant?
LORRAINE BARNES
Yes.
MR KHALIL
Your daughter was a pupil at St Andrew's junior school?
LORRAINE BARNES
That's right.
MR KHALIL
Was that where Miss Carr was a teaching assistant?
LORRAINE BARNES
Yes.
MR KHALIL
Was she at one stage teaching assistant to your daughter?
LORRAINE BARNES
Yes.
MR KHALIL
So far as Ian Huntley was concerned, did you used to see
him regularly?
LORRAINE BARNES
----
MR KHALIL
Was that just in the area of the close where you live?
LORRAINE BARNES
Yes, just in the area.
MR KHALIL
Did you become aware they had moved to Soham from northern
country?
LORRAINE BARNES
That's right.
MR KHALIL
Were you aware that they had a dog?
LORRAINE BARNES
Yes.
MR KHALIL
Did you ever see Ian or Maxine walking the dog?
LORRAINE BARNES
Just Maxine, not Ian.
MR KHALIL
So far as conversation is concerned, have you ever had
any conversation, lengthy conversation, with Ian Huntley?
LORRAINE BARNES
No.
MR KHALIL
Have you ever seen him using a mobile telephone?
LORRAINE BARNES
No.
MR KHALIL
Was there a barbecue in place in June of last year?
LORRAINE BARNES
Yes, there was.
MR KHALIL
Did both of them attend there?
LORRAINE BARNES
Yes.
MR KHALIL
Did you hear talk about them either being engaged or getting
married?
LORRAINE BARNES
Yes, I did.
MR KHALIL
Have you ever been into their house?
LORRAINE BARNES
No.
MR KHALIL
Have either of them been into yours?
LORRAINE BARNES
No.
MR KHALIL
Presume that they had use of a motor vehicle?
LORRAINE BARNES
Yes, I was.
MR KHALIL
Do you know what type of car it was?
LORRAINE BARNES
A red Ford Fiesta.
MR KHALIL
Where did you see that vehicle?
LORRAINE BARNES
Ian driving it round about outside their house.
MR KHALIL
Have you ever seen Miss Carr driving it?
LORRAINE BARNES
Never.
MR KHALIL
Inevitably you became aware of Jessica Chapman and Holly
Wells going missing, is that right?
LORRAINE BARNES
Yes.
MR KHALIL
I want to ask you about the morning of Monday, 5th August
last year. At about 7.30 in the morning a statement from
your husband detailing the fact Mr Huntley went to the
home address?
LORRAINE BARNES
Yes.
MR KHALIL
Were you aware of his attendance at your home?
LORRAINE BARNES
Yes, my husband told me.
MR KHALIL
Did you hear the conversation yourself, or was it just
passed on to you?
LORRAINE BARNES
It was passed on.
MR KHALIL
Thereafter did you assist in searching the college grounds?
LORRAINE BARNES
Yes.
MR KHALIL
And did you eventually go to the address, 5 College Close?
LORRAINE BARNES
Yes.
MR KHALIL
can you remember roughly what time it was - roughly -
you went there?
LORRAINE BARNES
midday, 12 o'clock.
MR KHALIL
was anybody at the house?
LORRAINE BARNES
Ian answered the door. Did you speak to him there?
LORRAINE BARNES
Yes, I did.
MR KHALIL
what did you say to him?
LORRAINE BARNES
I had been asked by a police officer who had been conducting
the search to search the college grounds and so I, out
of courtesy, just went to knock on Ian's door, as he was
the caretaker, to say I would be doing that. I made references
to the girls going missing, I previously had been told
by a----
MR KHALIL
you told him why you were there and what you were doing?
LORRAINE BARNES
yes. Did he respond to that?
LORRAINE BARNES
yes.
MR KHALIL
what did he say to you?
LORRAINE BARNES
he said no need to search the grounds they had already
been searched the night before with himself and sniffer
dog.
MR KHALIL
who had the sniffer dogs?
LORRAINE BARNES
police.
MR KHALIL
were you aware of any skips around the college?
LORRAINE BARNES
yes, I was.
MR KHALIL
was any mention made of those?
LORRAINE BARNES
yes.
MR KHALIL
who mentioned them?
LORRAINE BARNES
I did.
MR KHALIL
what did you say, please?
LORRAINE BARNES
I asked Ian if the skips had been searched because there
was rolled up carpets in them from a flood the college
had had and he said "Why would anybody want to look
in those?"
MR KHALIL
what did you say about the skips?
LORRAINE BARNES
(inaudible)
MR KHALIL
Not about the skips?
LORRAINE BARNES
not about the skips.
MR KHALIL
what other conversation was there then?
LORRAINE BARNES
that he had seen the girls the night before.
MR KHALIL
just pause. did he volunteer that or were you asking him?
LORRAINE BARNES
I was asking.
MR KHALIL
can you recall as , accurately as you can, what phrase
you used?
LORRAINE BARNES
I said "You saw the girls last night, didn't you?"
MR KHALIL
what was his response?
LORRAINE BARNES
"no."
MR KHALIL
go on?
LORRAINE BARNES
that was all he said, end of conversation.
MR KHALIL
did you say anything further?
LORRAINE BARNES
he had previously told myself and a neighbour that strange
cars had been seen driving round the green, so I brought
that up again.
MR KHALIL
you?
LORRAINE BARNES
brought that up again.
MR KHALIL
what did you say?
LORRAINE BARNES
I said you remember telling us there was a strange white
van driving around and he denied that also.
MR KHALIL
did he say anything about any vehicles driving about?
LORRAINE BARNES
not that day, only denied what I had asked him that day
but he had previously told myself and a neighbour about
the strange vehicle driving round.
MR KHALIL
okay. As far as any people or vehicle driving around did
he say anything about any other vehicles or not?
LORRAINE BARNES
no.
MR KHALIL
were you invited into his home on that occasion?
LORRAINE BARNES
no.
MR KHALIL
what was his manner as he was speaking to you at the front
of the house?
LORRAINE BARNES
he didn't seem as though he wanted to talk to me.
MR KHALIL
thank you very much, there may be some further questions.
MR COWARD
Mrs Barnes, vehicles for a moment, please. You mentioned
that you said to Ian Huntley when you saw him that there
was a white van, did you say?
LORRAINE BARNES
yes.
MR COWARD
he had seen driving around the college. You were saying
to him that you, Ian Huntley, had reported there was a
white van driving around the college?
LORRAINE BARNES
yes.
MR COWARD
and he replied, didn't he "no, I saw a red Fiesta
driving around the green?
LORRAINE BARNES
yes, he did.
MR COWARD
with a chap at the wheel of it?
LORRAINE BARNES
yes.
MR COWARD
did he actually tell you when he had seen that vehicle
or did he just speak generally?
LORRAINE BARNES
No, I knew about the red Fiesta as well. He had told myself
and a neighbour that there had been both these strange
vehicles driving around, but denied both of them when
I mentioned it to him.
MR COWARD
When?
LORRAINE BARNES
He said about the red Fiesta when I mentioned it to him.
MR COWARD
He mentioned the red Fiesta?
LORRAINE BARNES
Yes.
MR COWARD
How long before, in terms of days or weeks, had the red
Fiesta come up?
LORRAINE BARNES
Weeks.
MR COWARD
Weeks before?
LORRAINE BARNES
Yes .
MR COWARD
Just one other matter after you had had the conversation
about searching the skips, you got on to the question
of what Mr Huntley had seen and done the night before,
the night of the 4th August, didn't you?
LORRAINE BARNES
Yes .
MR COWARD
And Mr Huntley told you didn't he, that he had seen the
girls at his house?
LORRAINE BARNES
No.
MR COWARD
Are you sure?
LORRAINE BARNES
Yes.
MR COWARD
Thank you.
MR HUBBARD
No questions.
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