| Flowers in Gods Garden - Holly Wells
and Jessica Chapman - Documents |
17/12/03 - Soham Trial Transcript
Wednesday, 17 December 2003
SKY News
Richard Latham is the chief prosecutor; his colleague
on the prosecution team is Karim Khalil QC. Stephen Coward
QC is Ian Huntley's defence barrrister. Michael Hubbard
QC is Maxine Carr's defence lawyer. Mr Justice Moses is
the judge. Other witnesses and lawyers are introduced
as they appear.
( Jury in at 11.04)
THE CLERK OF THE COURT
Will the defendants please stand? Will THE FOREMAN please stand. Mr Foreman, will you please confine yourself to answering my first question simple yes or no? Members of the Jury, have you reached verdicts on all counts, in respect of both defendants, upon which you are all agreed?
THE FOREMAN
no.
THE CLERK OF THE COURT
thank you, sit down.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
ladies and gentlemen, the time has now come when I can give you further directions. They are these in relation to any of the counts, I will accept a verdict one way or the other upon which at least ten of you are agreed. In other words, ten to two, eleven to one or unanimous in respect of any verdicts upon which you are not agreed. You will be the best judge of this, Mr Foreman, and I do not want to know anything, but obviously do not take up time if it is pointless, but you should strive if there is any point in trying to reach unanimous verdicts. It is obviously preferable, but, as I say if you cannot I will accept verdict or verdicts on which at least ten of you are agreed.
(Jury retire again at 11.04)
MR JUSTICE MOSES
(Jury in at 11.56).
THE CLERK OF THE COURT
My Lord, the Jury retired on Friday, 12th December at 11.05. They were given a majority direction today at 11.04. They have therefore been deliberating for a total period of 17 hours and 32 minutes. Will the defendants please stand? Will THE FOREMAN please stand? Mr Foreman, will you please confine yourself to answering my first question simply yes or no? Members of the Jury, have you reached verdicts on all counts in respect of both Defendants upon which at least ten of you are agreed?
THE FOREMAN
yes.
THE CLERK OF THE COURT
members of the Jury, on count 1, do you find the Defendant, Ian Kevin Huntley, guilty or not guilty of murder?
THE FOREMAN
guilty.
THE CLERK OF THE COURT
is that the verdict of you all, or by majority?
THE FOREMAN
by majority.
THE CLERK OF THE COURT
how many of you agreed and how many dissented?
THE FOREMAN
11 agreed, one dissented.
THE CLERK OF THE COURT
Do you find the Defendant guilty of murder by a majority of 11 to 1?
THE FOREMAN
yes.
THE CLERK OF THE COURT
members of the Jury, on count 2, do you find the Defendant, Ian Kevin Huntley, guilty or not guilty of murder?
THE FOREMAN
guilty.
THE CLERK OF THE COURT
is that the verdict of you all, or by majority?
THE FOREMAN
by majority.
THE CLERK OF THE COURT
how many of you agreed and how many dissented?
THE FOREMAN
11 agreed, 1 dissented.
THE CLERK OF THE COURT
Do you find the Defendant guilty of murder by a majority of 11 to 1?
THE FOREMAN
yes.
THE CLERK OF THE COURT
members of the Jury, on count 3, do you find the Defendant, Maxine Ann Carr, guilty or not guilty of assisting an offender?
THE FOREMAN
not guilty.
THE CLERK OF THE COURT
not guilty. Members of the jury on count 4 do you find the Defendant, Maxine Ann Carr, guilty or not guilty of assisting an offender?
THE FOREMAN
not guilty.
THE CLERK OF THE COURT
not guilty.
THE CLERK OF THE COURT
Members of the Jury, on count 5, do you find the Defendant, Maxine Ann Carr, guilty or not guilty of conspiracy to do acts tending and intended to pervert the course of public justice?
THE FOREMAN
guilty.
THE CLERK OF THE COURT
is that the verdict of you all or by majority?
THE FOREMAN
by majority.
THE CLERK OF THE COURT
how many of you agreed and how many dissented.
THE FOREMAN
11 agreed, 1 dissented.
THE CLERK OF THE COURT
you find the Defendant guilty by a majority of 11 to 1.
THE FOREMAN
yes.
THE CLERK OF THE COURT
thank you. sit down.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
what we are going to do now is continue with the next part of the trial. What I am going to ask you to do is go to your room, it will only be for a few minutes and then come back.
{short adjournment}.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
yes, MR LATHAM .
MR LATHAM
my Lord, I anticipate, will be aware of certain relevant sections of the new Criminal Justice Act 2003, which has a commencement date of tomorrow, 18th December. My Lord, it therefore does not apply today.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
no.
MR LATHAM
my Lord, looking at schedule 22 to the Act, that deals with what it describes as "transitional" cases and paragraph 5 and 6 deals with existing prisoners who have been the subject of a mandatory indeterminate sentence, who have yet to be notified by the Secretary of State of the due period that is expected they will serve under that sentence. My Lord, paragraph 5 relates to any such existing prisoner who, in respect of any mandatory life sentence, has not, before the commencement date, been notified as mentioned in paragraphs 2 AB by the Secretary of State. Ian Huntley will undoubtedly fall into that category.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
in those circumstances, the case will be referred to the High Court.
MR LATHAM
the Secretary of State must refer the prisoner's case to the High Court and that will inevitably happen either tomorrow or shortly thereafter in order for the High Court to make the orders required under Section 269 of the act, but I thought it right to bring that position to my Lord's attention. simply by a day, this case falls outside.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
almost inevitably, as there will, in relation to a number of other prisoners in the same category, have to be a further Hearing during which - so we are not speaking in code - during which I will be making orders which fall within the schedule of Section 269, namely the determination of a minimum term, so that will have to be announced in open court. I make it clear what would have been my recommendation under the law, which is to be changed tomorrow, will not be something I announce today. Is there anything else you want to say? The ages of the two Defendants?
MR LATHAM
my Lord, the ages are in the case summary.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
so it is clear on the transcript?
MR LATHAM
29 and 26.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
MR COWARD.
MR COWARD
on behalf of Ian Huntley I have no representations to make, in regard to attempting to pervert the course of justice in relation to the other matters, it is of such minor importance.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
I will make no separate order. .
MR COWARD
my Lord so far as the pattern of sentencing is concerned, in my respectful submission, the proceedings having reached this stage, today is the day to pass sentence, not to wait for any further legislation that may come into force. .
MR JUSTICE MOSES
it may be, in the light of any recommendation, depending on the time it takes, that not all my business will be requiring a hearing in open court, if there is no (inaudible).
MR COWARD
my Lord, subject to that, I have no representations to make.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
thank you very much indeed. yes, MR HUBBARD ?
MR HUBBARD
my Lord, she has served 16 months which is the equivalent of a two year and eight month prison sentence. Your Lordship expressed some concern when we were here in April about the length of time she had been in custody then.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
it is obviously, although it will automatically be deducted from her sentence, it is something that you are entitled to allow by way of mitigation because waiting for this trial would have hit her particularly hard. However, of course, she lost what would have been the most significant feature of mitigation, namely a plea of guilty on count 5.
MR HUBBARD
my Lord, she did but, in the circumstances of this case, facing assisting counts which would unquestionably have attracted a reasonably substantial sentence.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
a very substantial sentence. In the case of murder, assisting an offender, it would be very substantial indeed.
MR HUBBARD
your Lordship perhaps will understand that it was not inappropriate to leave that count ----.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
forensic tactics if I may say so, not a criticism, but nevertheless the absence of a plea of guilty in a case such as this - did, as I say, deprive her of an important limb of mitigation in the face of what I may say in my view was overwhelming evidence.
MR HUBBARD
my Lord, the other aspect must be this, must it not, that she faces an unenviable future.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
yes.
MR HUBBARD
and really one cannot say more than that. She is going to be blighted for years and we would invite you to say that justice perhaps can be done by passing such a sentence today that would enable her to be released immediately.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
stand up, Huntley. Ian Kevin Huntley, on the 4th August 2002, you enticed two ten year old girls, Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman, into your house. They were happy, intelligent and loyal. They were much loved by their families and all who knew them. You murdered them both. You are the one person who knows how you murdered them. You are the one person who knows why. You destroyed the evidence, but you showed no mercy and you showed no regret.
It is plain that once you killed one, you had to kill the other in your attempt to avoid detection. On the 10th August, six days later, you told the BBC you thought you might be the last friendly face that these two girls had to speak to. that was a lie which serves to underline the persistent cruelty of your actions.
On the contrary, one of those girls died knowing her friend had been attacked or killed by you. After you had murdered them both, you pushed their bodies into a ditch, stripped them, and burned them while their families searched for them in increasing despair and as Kevin Wells called out their names, you pretended to join the search.
Three days later you demonstrated the extent of your merciless cynicism by offering that father some words of regret. Your tears have never been for them, only for yourself. In your attempts to escape responsibility in your lies and your manipulation, up to this very day you have increased the suffering you have caused two families, but it is not just those two families whose lives you have sought to destroy.
Your crimes are those for which the community suffers. the children you murdered were children whose lives brought joy to the community and whose deaths brought grief. There is no greater task for the criminal justice system than to protect the vulnerable. There are few worse crimes than your murder of those two young girls. The sentence I pass upon you is one to which I am impelled by law.
On count one, you will go to prison for life. On count 2, you will go to prison for life. You may go down. Maxine Ann Carr, the gravity of your offence must reflect the gravity of the offences for which you gave a false alibi. You had plenty of opportunity to refuse to persist in a course of lying and deception. You chose not to.
Your intelligence and strength of mind could have been used to ease the suffering of those families, but they were used to compound their misery. If you had had slightest true regard for those girls, or their families, you would have told the truth and the declaration of your partner might have been more readily achieved.
Your selfish concern for yourself and for Huntley led you all too readily to lie and all too glibly. You have lost the chance to mitigate the offence by your failure to plead guilty in the face of overwhelming evidence. I take into account your age, your good character and the time you have spent awaiting trial, but the least sentence of imprisonment I can pass consistent with my duty is one of three and a half years imprisonment.
You will serve half of that and remain on licence for the rest. The time you have spent in custody will be taken into account in the reduction of that. That is all I have to say.
MR COWARD
My Lord, for the purposes of count 1, no separate penalty.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
No separate penalty. Ladies and gentlemen, may I address you first. I want to thank you for the care and attention which you have paid to this case. The task you have performed is a task you have performed on behalf of the whole country. The concentration you have paid to this case has been obvious to us all. I know it cannot have been easy in the glare of public scrutiny. You have performed your duty with patience and good humour, fairness and justice.
You are discharged from jury service for the rest of your lives. If you are summoned you can say that, but you can of course serve on a jury again if you wish. There is something I wish to say to the parents and families of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman and I hope I speak on your behalf. You, the parents and families of those two young girls, deserve our respect and admiration for the way you have all conducted yourselves through what must have been to you the ordeal of this trial.
A courtroom is not the place for mourning and you must at times have thought that sympathy and understanding were being ill-directed towards those Defendants in an effort to ensure fair trial. But it is only by the conduct of a painstaking but fair trial, as I know you understand, to which all the legal teams and court staff have contributed, that this country can try to fulfil its obligations to protect the weak and vulnerable.
Now I can say this on behalf of us all. Your grief at the loss of such bright and life-enhancing daughters cannot be imagined and cannot be shared. Those of us who have been compelled to listen to so dispiriting and merciless a tale will have had some glimpse of what you have suffered and continue to suffer.
Our sympathy is made all the greater by witnessing your bravery, the more remarkable in the face of such public interest. It is a public interest, I hope and believe, which stems from a belief that your loss, your tragedy, is a loss and tragedy for us all.
(Court adjourned - trial ends) |
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