| Flowers in Gods Garden - Holly Wells
and Jessica Chapman - Documents |
19/11/03 - Soham Trial Transcript
Wednesday, 19 November 2003
SKY News
Richard Latham is the chief prosecutor; his colleague
on the prosecution team is Karim Khalil QC.
Stephen Coward QC is Ian Huntley's defence barrrister.
Michael Hubbard QC is Maxine Carr's defence lawyer.
MR JUSTICE MOSES is the judge.
Other witnesses and lawyers are introduced as they appear.
Page 01 02
03 04
05 06
07
MR LATHAM
"... my work in involves
site visits to ... preparing a quote for the customer
... our firm has done quite a lot of work (inaudible)
in November 2001. I was told there was work to be done
at 5 College Close which is the house of the caretaker
at Soham Village College. I arranged to meet Margaret
Bryden who is the Vice Principal of the school and she
took me to the house. It was in a fairly poor state from
how the previous caretaker had left it. She told me that
another person was due to move in so the work needed doing
soon. Most of the house was empty but the front room was
filled with the belongings of the new caretaker and covered
with sheets.
I remember there was some damage to the dining room ceiling
caused by water from the bathroom above. On November 21st,
I prepared a quote for Mrs Bryden and it was posted to
her and a photocopy kept for our file. From this copy
you can see the work we carried out there included refitting
the kitchen, plastering in the dining room, renewing all
sanitary ware in both upstairs bathroom and the downstairs
WC, replacing all the internal doors, renewing guttering
and redecorating throughout.
Our company was awarded the contract and the work was
carried out during December and January. I don't know
if we had done work at that house before but it was the
first time I had ever been there. The work that was carried
out was as specified in the quote apart from fitting a
serving hatch between the kitchen and dining room. Instead
an open doorway was left there as it had originally been.
The contract manager for the job was Grant Clayton and
the work was carried out during December and January.
I visited the house two or three times while the work
was going on and on these occasions met the new caretaker,
Ian Huntley. He was not living there at the beginning
but he might have moved in around Christmas 2001 when
most of the work had been done. " My Lord, really
read page 1502, the beginning of the next on my Lord's
files, file 3.
My Lord in the chronology, we are moving to page 14, Members
of the Jury, Wednesday 14th August. This is part of a
statement of Harriet Emilly, a journalist, Members of
the Jury, employed as a reporter for the Evening Standard,
based in London. Her job entails obtaining news information
and writing news stories, she had been involved in the
Soham inquiry. I pick up the statement towards the bottom
of the first page "about 3.30 to 4 o'clock, the afternoon
Wednesday 14th August 2002, I attended a press conference
and was handed a video of David Beck's appeal to the abductor.
My Lord, for clarification, David Beck was the then senior
investigating officer on the inquiry. I then left my colleague
to attend the press conference and I ran off to find somewhere
to play the tape and obtain a transcript of it. I had
a deadline, I was in a hurry and spoke to Sam Greenhill,
a Press Association employee, and we discussed where we
could watch it as all the trucks, the TV satellite vehicle,
had video machines in a different format.
Sam suggested a village pub, then I suggested the caretaker's
house which was nearby. I ran across the grass reaching
the house first. I knocked on the door and Ian Huntley
answered it. I didn't actually know it was Ian Huntley,
at this time, but obviously I realised later. Sam knew
him at that stage, as he had been in Soham a week already.
I explained who I was and apologised. I then explained
that I had a massive favour to ask him.
I showed him the video I had and told him it was the police
appeal to the abductor of the little girls. I told him
about my urgent deadline and that I needed to watch it
quickly and get down what it said. I assured him it was
really short and that it was less than one minute. I said
jokingly that I hope he had not got a DVD. He stared at
me for a couple of seconds as if he wasn't sure whether
to let me in.
I said I needed it to publicise the appeal and it might
help to get the girls back. I thought this comment might
persuade him to let me in. He said "okay, let me
check with my partner", although he may have said
girlfriend, I'm not sure which. He allowed me into the
small entrance hall. Sam had arrived by this time and
stood next to me in the hall clutching his tape and notebook.
The man I now know to be Huntley, leaned round the door
of the front room on the right and I heard him say, "I
have a journalist here who wants to watch a video with
a police appeal about the two girls, is that okay?".
or words to the that effect.
I didn't actually hear the reply but this other person
must have agreed; he poked his head round the door and
said, go ahead. he pointed for us to go into the sitting
room. that room we entered was the first room on the left.
Sam and I went in ahead of him and he followed us in.
A woman I now know to be Maxine Carr then followed behind
Ian Huntley.
I gave the tape to Ian and he asked for me and Sam to
sit on the sofa and he crouched down and put the video
in the machine. as he did this, at some point he joked
you know, we are about to get a DVD in a couple of weeks.
You are lucky, Maxine said quite quietly - are we allowed
to see this. Sam explained to her it was fine as it was
embargoed for national telly until 6 pm, but that we needed
to view it. Sam was sitting nearer to Maxine, I think
she was sitting on the floor, the same as Ian, but I'm
not sure.
Ian Huntley pressed 'play'. I and Mr Beck immediately
started talking. I was concerned that we had missed the
beginning and I asked him to fully rewind because it was
important that we didn't miss any of it. He said he thought
it was fully rewound but did as I asked. The tape began
again ... there was silence as it played. We were both
concentrating on what we had to do and Ian and Maxine
were staring at the screen.
Sam and I began comparing notes to make sure we had got
everything he said down right. Ian Huntley then suggested
rewinding the video and playing it again. I told him not
to re-wind; we were in a rush and we probably had everything
down anyway. Ian said something like it is no trouble,
it is no problem. Sam and I therefore agreed to it being
rewound, the tape was rewound and we watched it again
and checked the notes.
I had more time so I looked over at Ian and Maxine. Ian
then said, it beggars belief. she shook his head. they
showed no emotion, just appeared tired and concerned.
At the end of the tape, Ian gave me the video. Sam and
I jumped up, Sam ran out first ahead of me; I thanked
them and apologised again for troubling them. Ian said
the same to me; not at all, anything to help get those
two little girls back, or words to that effect.
I said thank you and ran out of the sitting room into
the hall. I slipped on a mat and almost fell over. Maxine
said are you all right and I was a little embarrassed.
I said okay and then I ran off." My Lord we don't
at the moment have this very short appeal on DVD, we have
only got it on video tape, and I understand that given
we have now (inaudible) we can't watch it now on the screen.
I will read out the transcript, which is six lines, but
at some stage we'll make sure the Jury actually see it.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
we don't need copies for the moment.
MR
LATHAM
my Lord may I hand up a copy for my Lord so you the it
{same handed}.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
thank you very much.
MR LATHAM
what is said on the tape is this, Members of the Jury
"I appeal to you again to work with me to stop this
getting any worse than it is. you have a way out. I have
left you a personal message and a text message on Jessica's
mobile phone. Listen to that message. it will tell you
how to contact me so that we can stop this now. you have
the opportunity to speak with me. this is the time to
use it. ". My Lord the chronology refers to the timing
at 4 and then the fact it was six o'clock. It was actually
broadcast and therefore on national and local television.
PETER JORDAN please, page 1505, my Lord
(PETER
JORDAN, sworn)
Examined by MR LATHAM.
MR LATHAM
can you start, please, by telling us your full name?
PETER JORDAN
Peter Thomas Jordan.
MR LATHAM
make sure everyone can hear what you say?
PETER
JORDAN
yes.
MR LATHAM
take things steadily and slowly. I think in the summer
of last year you were a student studying economics at
Newcastle University, is that correct?
PETER
JORDAN
yes, that's correct.
MR LATHAM
your mother lived either in, or near, Soham Village College?
PETER JORDAN
yes, she lived in Beechurst.
MR LATHAM
did she have a link with the school?
PETER
JORDAN
she is a resource centre manager and also a school governor.
MR LATHAM
through her, did you manage to get a vacation job during
the summer, doing some work in the school?
PETER
JORDAN
yes.
MR LATHAM
what sort of work were you doing on the site?
PETER JORDAN
it was general painting and also sort of odd jobs and
maintenance .
MR LATHAM
and as a result of getting that job, did you to find the
person who was in charge on the site during the school
holidays?
PETER JORDAN
yes.
MR LATHAM
and I think you were given the name of Ian Huntley as
somebody you needed to get in touch with, is that right?
PETER JORDAN
yes, that's correct.
MR LATHAM
I think your first day at the college was Friday, 26th
July, wasn't it?
PETER JORDAN
yes.
MR LATHAM
were you familiar with the site before the summer of last
year, or was this a new set of buildings?
PETER
JORDAN
I was familiar. I had been a student at the college.
MR LATHAM
so you know the site at Beechurst, obviously?
PETER JORDAN
yes.
MR LATHAM
during the first few days, did you work in any one particular
place, or were you moving around through various parts
of the site?
PETER JORDAN
on the first day I worked in one particular building,
but had to move, because I had to get there.
MR LATHAM
did you have much to do with Ian Huntley in the first
few days?
PETER JORDAN
no, not a great deal.
MR LATHAM
then I think life became more complicated for the college
because there was a flood, wasn't there, on the 30th July?
PETER JORDAN
yes, that's correct.
MR LATHAM
and there was therefore another urgent problem which needed
sorting out?
PETER JORDAN
yes.
MR LATHAM
were you from time to time involved in dealing with that?
PETER JORDAN
Yes, I (inaudible).
MR LATHAM
then of course yet another problem, as far as those at
the site were concerned, is that the disappearance of
the girls led to the site being busy with policemen and,
indeed, the press from Monday the 5th August onwards?
PETER JORDAN
yes, there wasn't a great deal on Monday but then I noticed
that I became busy.
MR LATHAM
I want to ask you about the second week of the police
inquiry - from Monday 12th August onwards. during that
week, or by that week, that you met Ian Huntley and from
time to time spoke to him to get started on a job on the
site?
PETER JORDAN
yes I had.
MR LATHAM
in the second week did there come a time when you were
actually more intimately involved with him than simply
a few words at the beginning of the day?
PETER
JORDAN
yes, I visited his house once. On the day of the flood
itself, I went in for a cold drink, went into the kitchen.
MR LATHAM
did you also do some work that Ian Huntley became involved
in as well?
PETER JORDAN
yes, I was painting in one of the buildings.
MR LATHAM
was the painting in one of the buildings before or after
you visited his home?
PETER JORDAN
that was after.
MR LATHAM
so the first thing that you did when you spent any time
with him was to go into his home?
PETER
JORDAN
yes.
MR LATHAM
what was the reason you went into his home?
PETER JORDAN
the flood caused damage and he asked me to do overtime.
I agreed and there was I (inaudible) went with him to
his house to have a cold drink basically and a fag break
before we got on with more work.
MR
LATHAM
which part of his house did you go into?
PETER
JORDAN
just the kitchen.
MR LATHAM
with him?
PETER JORDAN
yes.
MR LATHAM
anyone else there apart from the two of you?
PETER JORDAN
no.
MR LATHAM
now, after that you went on to say that you became involved
in some painting when he was also doing something.
PETER JORDAN
yes.
MR LATHAM
was this one of the classrooms you were working in?
PETER JORDAN
yes, in the Gibson block.
MR LATHAM
during the time you were working in the classroom doing
this painting, was there from time to time conversation
between the two of you?
PETER JORDAN
yes.
MR LATHAM
I would like you as best you can to help us with the topic
or topics of conversation that were covered. I'm not of
course talking about the job itself, the painting; I'm
not interested that in. can you help us with anything
apart from the job itself that you discussed with Ian
Huntley?
PETER JORDAN
we discussed the disappearance of the two girls.
MR LATHAM
right. what did he say, if anything, about the girls'
disappearance?
PETER JORDAN
he specifically said, he asked me did I think they would
be found.
MR LATHAM
do you think they would be found?
PETER
JORDAN
yes.
MR LATHAM
your response to that?
PETER JORDAN
my opinion was that they would be found and generally
when these bodies, whatever they are, are found----
MR LATHAM
Sorry, I am finding it very difficult.
MR
JUSTICE MOSES
"my opinion was they would
be found" and you added something?
PETER
JORDAN
when these kind of things are found or discovered, it
is not normally by the police but by a man with a dog,
more discovered by accident.
MR LATHAM
when you spoke of them being found?
PETER
JORDAN
yes, yes.
MR LATHAM
was this found alive or that their bodies would be found
that you were talking about?
PETER JORDAN
it was just found, it wasn't specific.
MR
LATHAM
found, all right. what was his response to that?
PETER JORDAN
he didn't give a specific response to them being found,
to my comment really, just sort of general agreement.
MR LATHAM
he asked you that question, you had given him the answer?
PETER JORDAN
yes.
MR LATHAM
anything else that you?
PETER JORDAN
yes, there were other things but----
MR
LATHAM
On the topic of the girls?
PETER JORDAN
Yes, yes, I mentioned the Milly Dowler case and that that
was in response to his question how long did I think the
police would continue searching.
MR
LATHAM
so how long did, who was saying how long would the police
continue searching?
PETER JORDAN
Ian Huntley, he asked me.
MR LATHAM
he was asking you how long do you think the police will
continue searching?
PETER JORDAN
yes.
MR LATHAM
what did you say to that?
PETER JORDAN
I didn't really have any idea how long they would continue
searching, but I mentioned the Milly Dowler case and that
they had continued searching a long time.
MR
JUSTICE MOSES
don't speak so fast.
PETER JORDAN
sorry.
MR LATHAM
anything else?
PETER JORDAN
in relation to that he said about searching 19 days and
they had another week's worth of searching to do I had
no idea where he got this 19 days from.
MR
LATHAM
did he ask you any other questions?
PETER
JORDAN
not that I specifically recall at the moment, no.
MR LATHAM
anything else at that point in the conversation or at
any later stage as you were working with him?
PETER JORDAN
there was comment made about where he had been the previous
day, he had mentioned he had been to out to near Brandon.
I knew the area, I knew where Brandon was and so I sort
of said yes I know the area well. He said, he mentioned,
it was out that way and the area seemed so big and vast,
not like anything would ever be found in an area like
that.
MR LATHAM
you mentioned a few moments ago something about it is
normally a man out with a dog, did I catch that phrase
a few moments ago.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
that's what he said "Normally a man with a dog would
find the bodies, or people."
MR
LATHAM
anything else said in relation to what had produced that
observation by you - it is normally a man with a dog?
PETER JORDAN
the observation by me was just, an observation of various
previous cases, previous findings and things.
MR LATHAM
but what provoked you to say that?
MR
JUSTICE MOSES
he said the question from Huntley was did I think they
would be found.
MR LATHAM
my Lord, I'm looking at the second paragraph on page 1508.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
I know you are, yes.
MR LATHAM
anything else that you recollect at that time in the conversation?
PETER JORDAN
yes, he mentioned one way of disposing of bodies would
be to submerge them in a bath of acid.
MR
LATHAM
when you were discussing Brandon because you said you
knew it and he said he had been there----?
PETER
JORDAN
yes.
MR LATHAM
----did he talk about anything else after that in relation
the police investigation?
PETER JORDAN
no.
MR LATHAM
did he ever, while you were working with him, either then
or at any later stage, mention anything else about the
police investigation?
PETER JORDAN
not that I recall at the moment.
MR
LATHAM
you have said that you were indicating to him that sooner
or later you thought the girls would be found?
PETER JORDAN
yes.
MR LATHAM
what was his attitude to that?
PETER
JORDAN
he thought it unlikely they would be found.
MR LATHAM
he---?
PETER JORDAN
thought it unlikely they would be found.
MR
LATHAM
he thought it unlikely? That was the girls being found?
PETER JORDAN
yes.
MR LATHAM
did he say anything else, apart from the girls being found?
PETER JORDAN
no.
MR LATHAM
would you wait there, please?
Cross-examined
by MR COWARD .
MR COWARD
are you sure there was a reference to 19 days in relation
to Milly Dowler?
PETER JORDAN
Yes, I am.
MR COWARD
the second matter is this, you talked about him saying
that he had been out near somewhere, that was ally Thetford,
wasn't it he spoke of, not Brandon?
PETER
JORDAN
no, it was Brandon.
MR COWARD
are you sure it was Brandon?
PETER JORDAN
I'm sure it was Brandon.
MR COWARD
thank you very much.
MR LATHAM
I have no re-examination.
MR JUSTICE
MOSES
thank you very much
(The witness withdrew)
(SIMON CAUSER, sworn)
Examined by MR LATHAM
SIMON
CAUSER
my Lord I am Inspector SIMON CAUSER of the Metropolitan
Police Service, currently attached to the Territorial
Support Group. Prior to April this year I was employed
by Cambridgeshire Constabulary.
MR LATHAM
I think you were one of the senior officers who became
involved early on in the inquiry into the two missing
girls, Jessica Chapman and Holly Wells, weren't you?
SIMON CAUSER
yes, that's correct.
MR LATHAM
When did you first come on duty in relation to that?
SIMON CAUSER
I came on duty at 8 am on Monday, August 5th.
MR LATHAM
I think in fact you spoke to sergeant Pauline Nelson just
after she was, or just before, she was going off shift?
SIMON CAUSER
yes.
MR LATHAM
who gave you an up-date on the situation as a result of
her duties throughout the night?
SIMON
CAUSER
yes, that's right.
MR LATHAM
I think you made a decision to arrange for a mobile police
station to be taken to Soham?
SIMON
CAUSER
yes.
MR LATHAM
did one remain there then throughout the following fortnight,
that mobile police station?
SIMON CAUSER
in Soham itself, yes, it started off at the St Andrew's
School and then it was moved to a different location.
MR LATHAM
I don't want to go through the detail of the progress
of the police inquiry during the Monday, but I think you
were involved in making a number of decisions----
SIMON CAUSER
yes, I was.
MR LATHAM
----and arrangements in the early stages of the investigation,
weren't you?
SIMON CAUSER
yes.
MR LATHAM
now, at some point on the Monday I think you spoke to
a police officer, Detective Constable Andrea Warren, and
sent them off to do something, did you?
SIMON
CAUSER
yes, that was about 25 past 1 in the afternoon. Andrea
Warren and two other detectives came to the St Andrew's
School site and they went to see Mr Ian Huntley at his
home address.
MR LATHAM
who decided that task should take place?
SIMON
CAUSER
I can't recall the actual person that decided that should
happen. Of course Pauline Nelson had spoken to me about
Ian Huntley in the morning and raised her concerns and
it was it was a direction that followed from there.
MR LATHAM
it was a result certainly of information you had as early
as coming on duty at 8 in the morning?
SIMON
CAUSER
yes.
MR LATHAM
I think arrangements had been made for a search to take
place which was going to involve police officers on early
evening of that Monday, is that right?
SIMON
CAUSER
yes, there was an ongoing search throughout the day to
various degrees.
MR LATHAM
had, in fact, there been an appeal on television or on
the radio asking for the public's assistance?
SIMON CAUSER
Yes, I think an appeal went out on the BBC asking for
the public, which was probably a slight mistake. We certainly
didn't want an appeal to go out, but that did occur.
MR LATHAM
what was the net effect of that, as far as the police
were concerned, and particularly you as one of the senior
officers (inaudible)?
SIMON CAUSER
we were overwhelmed by the public support. When I arrived
back in Soham in the early evening, I then described there
were possibly 500 or more members of the public at the
car park, it was full with members of the public.
MR LATHAM
did you really have the mechanism for utilising that many
people?
SIMON CAUSER
no, no.
MR LATHAM
without notice?
SIMON CAUSER
no, not at all.
MR LATHAM
what did you decide to do, how did you organise it?
SIMON CAUSER
after taking advice from various parties, eventually I
tried to whittle the numbers down to effectively the fit
and healthy and to ask them to take their pets home. We
divided them into groups and asked them to go to areas
they were familiar with, to go and search those areas.
We had members of the public from villages miles away
from Soham, so we asked them to go back and search areas
around their own villages.
MR LATHAM
they all came back, or asked to come back, as it was getting
dark?
SIMON CAUSER
yes.
MR LATHAM
you mentioned that on the first day you had certainly
asked an officer or officers to go and speak to Ian Huntley,
that is a name you have been given by Sergeant Nelson
on the morning.
SIMON CAUSER
Yes.
MR LATHAM
do you recollect when it was that you first, yourself,
came upon Ian Huntley during the course of this investigation?
SIMON CAUSER
I think the first time that I ever spoke to him was on
Thursday, 15th August, at around ten past six in the evening,
which was the evening we were to hold the community meetings
at the Soham Village College site.
MR
LATHAM
had you been involved pretty much on a daily basis during
the 8, 9, 10 days or so since the Monday morning?
SIMON CAUSER
yes.
MR LATHAM
were you aware of the David Beck announcement about the
message, which had been left on Jessica's mobile telephone?
SIMON CAUSER
yes, I was aware of it, but didn't know any of the detail
because I had been involved in, I suppose, my own inquiries
on the previous day and had not seen the press report
or been party to the briefings about what was going to
be said and done.
MR LATHAM
here we were, a day later the 15th, the Thursday, now
you have mentioned it, was there was going to be a community
meeting this evening?
SIMON CAUSER
yes.
MR LATHAM
and there had been a number of press conferences, or at
least meetings, when information had been given to the
press by the police. Was the community meeting that type
of meeting or a rather different sort of meeting?
SIMON CAUSER
it was a different sort of meeting, it was a consultation
process. what we were keen to do was to keep the residents
of Soham, I think, reassured and try and inform them to
the best of our abilities what we were doing and the sort
of activities that were taking place in and hand Soham
amentities for the public of Soham, not for the press.
MR LATHAM
were the press invited into the hall where it was to take
place?
SIMON CAUSER
they were invited in for the first five minutes to take
a few photographs and for video footage and then we asked
them to leave, which they did.
MR LATHAM
that meeting was planned to take place at what time?
SIMON CAUSER
7 p.m..
MR LATHAM
on the Thursday evening?
SIMON CAUSER
yes.
MR LATHAM
where was it going take place?
SIMON
CAUSER
the Soham Village College site, in the main hall there.
MR LATHAM
you have already mentioned that you first yourself came
upon Ian Huntley the first time on that Thursday at about
ten past six?
SIMON CAUSER
yes.
MR LATHAM
what was he doing when you first saw him?
SIMON
CAUSER
he was setting up the hall for us, he was putting chairs
out, moving tables around, and just making it ready for
the meeting.
MR LATHAM
did the meeting start at about seven o'clock?
SIMON CAUSER
yes.
MR LATHAM
about how long did it go on for?
SIMON
CAUSER
about an hour and a half. It came to a conclusion at 8.30.
MR LATHAM
at the end of the meeting, did people start to drift away?
SIMON CAUSER
yes.
MR LATHAM
where were you and where had you been as the meeting had
been going on?
SIMON CAUSER
I had been on the stage. on the top table, to open the
meeting addressing the audience, and remained there at
the end of the meeting as people drifted away.
MR LATHAM
did somebody approach you as the crowd was drifting away
from the meeting?
SIMON CAUSER
yes, Ian Huntley came up to me.
MR LATHAM
tell us as best you can what you remember being said?
SIMON CAUSER
can I refer to my original notes.
MR
LATHAM
I was going to ask when did you make the notes in relation
to what was said?
SIMON CAUSER
they were made prior to me going off duty at 9.30 that
evening, so within the space of an hour.
MR
JUSTICE MOSES
yes?
SIMON CAUSER
Ian Huntley approach me and asked, with words to the effect
of with regard the message left on the mobile phone, if
a person had the phone, how would they go about accessing
the message. .
MR LATHAM
you told us you were aware of some sort of announcement
by the senior officer, Mr *Beck?
SIMON
CAUSER
yes.
MR LATHAM
but you didn't know the details. Did you know a message
had been left on the voicemail of----?
SIMON
CAUSER
I know a message had been left but I wasn't aware of the
contents or what procedures when they came into contact
with us.
MR LATHAM
was there another, indeed more senior officer, close by
at this point?
SIMON CAUSER
yes, Detective Chief Inspector Hebb was also on stage.
MR LATHAM
were you aware that his knowledge might be greater than
yours?
SIMON CAUSER
I thought it would be, yes.
MR LATHAM
what did you do?
SIMON CAUSER
I called him across to where we were standing and asked
him if he would speak to Ian Huntley because of the question
I had just been asked.
MR LATHAM
Did, as it were, at that stage you dropped that?
SIMON CAUSER
yes, he was distracted by some other things and didn't
hear the conversation going on.
MR LATHAM
thank you very much. Would you wait there please
Cross-examined by MR COWARD
MR COWARD
looking at page 14 of our chronology, J, the day before
Detective Chief Inspector Beck had actually gone on television
and had spoken, it was, to the abductor, saying "I
have left a message on Jessica's mobile phone." now,
you were asked by Mr Huntley how can that message get
through if Jessica's phone is either turned off or the
battery is not working any more. Were you going to ask
the question from your own knowledge?
MR
JUSTICE MOSES
that's now a second question. You are wrapping up two
questions. It is not what - I know it was not deliberate,
Inspector Causer has not said anything about your client
saying if the mobile was turned off or the battery had
run down. So the first question is did he say that.
MR COWARD
let's be clear, what do you say Mr Huntley said to you?
SIMON CAUSER
again, it was words to the effect of "with regard
the message left on the mobile phone, if a person had
the phone, how would they go about accessing the message?"
MR COWARD
would you have been in a position to explain technically
how it could be done?
SIMON CAUSER
I would suggest that someone charges the phone on and
listens to it, if I was going to reply but certainly couldn't
go into any more technical detail.
MR
COWARD
or they would have to put a battery in and charge the
battery, things of that sort?
SIMON
CAUSER
I could have done that, but I didn't.
MR
COWARD
so you could have given a partial answer to the question
but you didn't and you passed it on to Mr Beck?
SIMON CAUSER
that's correct. sorry, Mr Hebb.
MR COWARD
Mr hebb, thank you very much. .
MR HUBBARD
no questions.
MR LATHAM
I have no re-examination.
MR JUSTICE
MOSES
it is getting late, but I am very conscious of the importance
of not keeping any police officers hanging around unnecessarily,
is Hebb here.
MR LATHAM
he is, he has been in court throughout.
MR
JUSTICE MOSES
I thought so, he is not doing anything else. I'm sure
he has got other things to do, but its not embarrassing
if he comes back tomorrow. Shall we stop? Ladies and gentlemen
thank you very much. 10.30 tomorrow. Allow plenty of time.
remember the warning I gave you. Hearing adjourned - will
resume tomorrow
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