| Flowers in Gods Garden - Holly Wells
and Jessica Chapman - Documents |
20/11/03 - Soham Trial Transcript
Thursday, 20 November 2003
SKY News
Richard Latham is the chief prosecutor; his colleague
on the prosecution team is Karim Khalil QC.
Stephen Coward QC is Ian Huntley's defence barrrister.
Michael Hubbard QC is Maxine Carr's defence lawyer.
MR JUSTICE MOSES is the judge.
Other witnesses and lawyers are introduced as they appear.
Page 01 02
03 04
MR KHALIL
Samantha Rix.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
since the recollection was pooled it is going to be the
same.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
I expect she has been waiting here now.
MR
KHALIL
we know what she is going to say.
MR
JUSTICE MOSES
does anybody want her? she has not got those notes? there
she is. anyway if somebody tells her - it is my fault.
MR KHALIL
I call GAVIN SHERRIFF
GAVIN SHERRIFF, sworn
Examined by MR KHALIL
MR KHALIL
give us your full name, please?
GAVIN
SHERRIFF
GAVIN SHERRIFF.
MR KHALIL
Mr Sherriff, you are employed as a journalist reporting
for the Sunday Post?
GAVIN SHERRIFF
that's correct.
MR KHALIL
in August of last year, you are doing that job in Soham
in Cambridgeshire?
GAVIN SHERRIFF
I was.
MR KHALIL
were you one of the many involved in reporting the missing
girls, Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman?
GAVIN
SHERRIFF
yes, I was.
MR KHALIL
I want to ask you, please, about your contact with a man
whom you came to know as Ian Huntley?
GAVIN
SHERRIFF
yes.
MR KHALIL
I think you became aware of him because he was seen on
other media outlets, is that correct?
GAVIN
SHERRIFF
correct.
MR KHALIL
did there come a time on Saturday 10th August when you
tried to speak with him?
GAVIN SHERRIFF
did, yes.
MR KHALIL
where did you go to do that?
GAVIN SHERRIFF
to the house on College Road.
MR KHALIL
having gone there was he present at the house?
GAVIN SHERRIFF
he was.
MR KHALIL
was he inside initially?
GAVIN SHERRIFF
yes.
MR KHALIL
answered the door?
GAVIN SHERRIFF
he did.
MR KHALIL
Apart from yourself there, did you have any colleagues?
GAVIN SHERRIFF
no.
MR KHALIL
did you introduce yourself?
GAVIN SHERRIFF
I did.
MR KHALIL
what did you say to him?
GAVIN SHERRIFF
I said I was reporter, I would like to talk to him for
a few moments and realised it had been a difficult week,
could he spare me a few moments.
MR
KHALIL
what was his attitude?
GAVIN SHERRIFF
he indicated that that would be okay.
MR
KHALIL
Did you go into the house or remain outside?
GAVIN SHERRIFF
I remained outside.
MR KHALIL
was there anyone else present there?
GAVIN
SHERRIFF
yes, the person I came to know as Maxine Carr was standing
in the hallway at that point.
MR KHALIL
did you speak with her or not?
GAVIN
SHERRIFF
not directly, no.
MR KHALIL
did you, when you had a conversation, remain as it were
on the doorstep, or go inside?
GAVIN
SHERRIFF
I remained on the doorstep.
MR KHALIL
were you able to take any notes as you were there?
GAVIN SHERRIFF
I didn't take any notes at the time because I felt that
it might make them reluctant to talk to me by showing
a notebook in front of me.
MR KHALIL
did (inaudible)?
GAVIN SHERRIFF
a matter of a few feet away.
MR KHALIL
following your interview with him, your preparation of
notes, did you then prepare a newspaper article for publication?
GAVIN SHERRIFF
I did yes.
MR KHALIL
was it then printed in the Sunday Post?
GAVIN
SHERRIFF
it was.
MR KHALIL
I am told if we need to look at the article we can do.
I think the notes have subsequently either been discarded
or gone missing is that right?
GAVIN
SHERRIFF
Yes.
MR KHALIL
if we need to, we have a copy of the article here. Can
you help please what you asked him and what he was to
respond with?
GAVIN SHERRIFF
as I say, I said I realised it had been a difficult week,
could he spare me a few moments. I think at that moment
Maxine Carr, I was aware of her behind him, and she said
"Who is it?". he turned and explained who I
was, or what I was. She then said "No no no"
and looked down. he said you will say a few words, won't
you.
MR KHALIL
who was he speaking to?
GAVIN SHERRIFF
to Maxine Carr. At which point she said, I think she said,
it had been a horrible week and that they had just been
shopping and seen the police looking in pictures, and
that's when it hits you what could have happened to them.
MR KHALIL
where was she looking as she said this?
GAVIN
SHERRIFF
I think still looking down, not directly towards me particularly;
the interior of the house was fairly dark, but it was
very bright outside so I couldn't see clearly.
MR KHALIL
having spoken in that way did she remain close by or did
she move?
GAVIN SHERRIFF
she then moved away.
MR KHALIL
did you see where she went, or could you see?
GAVIN SHERRIFF
I wasn't aware of where she went but she didn't come out.
MR KHALIL
did Ian Huntley remain at the front?
GAVIN
SHERRIFF
he did.
MR KHALIL
did you speak further with him?
GAVIN
SHERRIFF
yes, I said what has it been like for you, to which he
replied, he said it had been a horrible week and that.
MR KHALIL
did he say for whom it had been a horrible week?
GAVIN SHERRIFF
I don't recall, that people had been criticising the police
for not coming up with anything, but, from what he had
seen of them, they had done a magnificent job, and it
was more than just a job to them. he then said, "Is
that it?" which I took to mean he wanted to bring
the conversation to a close and I said, "Yes"
and thanked him.
MR KHALIL
did you then leave and go to your vehicle?
GAVIN
SHERRIFF
I did.
MR KHALIL
thank you very much, wait there, please, Mr Sherriff.
In the course of the 10th August (inaudible) interviews
requested. the second matter is this on - this is 10th
August - when Mr Huntley answered the door you had no
difficulty recognising it was Mr Huntley because his photograph
had already appeared in (inaudible)?
GAVIN
SHERRIFF
yes.
MR HUBBARD
Miss Carr seemed very reluctant to talk to you, didn't
she?
GAVIN SHERRIFF
I got the impression that she didn't want to talk to me.
MR HUBBARD
yes. it was only when Mr Huntley said, "You will
say a few words, won't you?" that she did say something?
GAVIN SHERRIFF
that's correct.
MR COWARD
and when she said what you have told us she looked very
unhappy, didn't she?
GAVIN SHERRIFF
yes, she looked uncomfortable.
MR COWARD
"Unhappy" was the word you used?
GAVIN
SHERRIFF
I would say unhappy, yes.
MR HUBBARD
I have no other questions.
MR KHALIL
thank you very much.
(The witness withdrew)
RACHEL DANE, sworn
Examined by MR KHALIL
MR KHALIL
RACHEL DANE, please.
MR KHALIL
your name, please?
RACHEL DANE
Rachel Imogen Dane.
MR KHALIL
are you a broadcast journalist with the BBC?
RACHEL DANE
I am.
MR KHALIL
and you work from their offices in Norwich?
RACHEL DANE
yes.
MR KHALIL
I want to ask you, please, about Saturday, 10th August
last year. did you go to Soham and go to 5 College Close?
RACHEL DANE
yes.
MR KHALIL
did you go there with a cameraman, Sean Whitemore?
RACHEL DANE
yes.
MR KHALIL
you arrived in separate vehicles but you arranged to meet
there?
RACHEL DANE
yes. Was this with a view to try to interview Ian Huntley?
RACHEL DANE
yes.
MR KHALIL
Was your understanding at that time that he may have been
the last person to speak to the two missing girls?
RACHEL DANE
it was.
MR KHALIL
did you decide to try and go into the home if you could?
RACHEL DANE
yes.
MR KHALIL
Did you go to the front at about 11 o'clock that morning?
RACHEL DANE
yes. R KHALIL did he see anybody there?
RACHEL
DANE
as we drove into the close, we saw Maxine Carr and Ian
Huntley coming out of their front door with their black
dog. I got out of the car there, my cameraman, Sean Whitemore,
went to park the car up, and I walked towards both of
them.
MR KHALIL
did you speak with either of them at that time?
RACHEL DANE
Yes, I spoke to Maxine.
MR KHALIL
did you introduce yourself, tell her who you were and
why you were there?
RACHEL DANE
yes.
MR KHALIL
what was her response?
RACHEL DANE
she seemed you know, not, she seemed used to being approached
by people. we chatted. I said that I had seen her on television
previously with the card, and I knew of her relationship
with the girls and I would very much like to speak to
her.
MR KHALIL
did she say anything about whether she was prepared to
talk with you?
RACHEL DANE
Ian Huntley came over then and she looked at him and asked
him whether it would be all right to talk.
MR
KHALIL
what was his attitude?
RACHEL DANE
Ian Huntley was very against the national press and national
media, but he said to her that as we were local television
it was up to her whether she spoke.
MR
KHALIL
did they speak with one another, or continue speaking
to you or how did go?
RACHEL DANE
They discussed that among themselves while I was there
and then they decided we could do the interview so I went
straight back to my cameraman and said "Get the camera
out of the car. We can go in and do it." They waited
for us and we all walked into the house.
MR
KHALIL
The four of you. Now can you recall where you went to
in the house?
RACHEL DANE
we went into the lounge.
MR KHALIL
Is that where the interviews were to be conducted?
RACHEL DANE
yes.
MR KHALIL
right. I think you have subsequently produced, between
you and your cameraman, the film of those interviews,
is that right?
RACHEL DANE
that's right.
MR KHALIL
in short compass was there a section where the card that
had been spoken of was filmed?
RACHEL
DANE
there was.
MR KHALIL
inevitably in the background, as there was conversation?
RACHEL DANE
yes.
MR KHALIL
Were two interviews conducted, one with Miss Carr and
one with Ian Huntley?
RACHEL DANE
yes.
MR KHALIL
I want to play those, if I may
{Video
played}.
MR KHALIL
that is the first section then of the interview with Miss
Carr that was conducted before----.
MR
JUSTICE MOSES
before we go on, what is the status of that transcript,
because in a sense it is very difficult to hear. It is
somebody's view of what was said. we have all been able
to hear, but is it agreed it is an accurate transcript.
MR KHALIL
it was agreed, yes.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
so we don't have to worry that that is what was said.
go on, sorry
(Video played)
MR KHALIL
whilst that interview was being conducted and filmed,
where was Ian Huntley?
RACHEL DANE
Ian Huntley had left the room during the interview but
I don't know at what point he returned to the room.
MR KHALIL
we noticed as we played that there was a break at one
point, and it seemed to resume, and you went back over
some of the material you had covered. just explain that,
please?
RACHEL DANE
we had finished the interview and my cameraman pointed
out Maxine Carr had been talking about the girls in the
past tense, so we decided we needed to ask the questions
again, and get her not to use the past tense, but, as
you saw, she did again and we had to stop and sort of
start again.
MR KHALIL
Ian Huntley had left the room at some point; did he return?
RACHEL DANE
Yes.
MR KHALIL
whilst the interview was still being conducted or afterwards?
RACHEL DANE
while the interview was still being conducted.
MR KHALIL
so the interview concluded, as we see was he there at
the end?
RACHEL DANE
yes.
MR KHALIL
was the topic raised of interviewing him then or had it
already been raised?
RACHEL DANE
no, it hadn't been raised at all. then we started talking
about - Ian Huntley started asking questions about where
our interview would be shown and whether it would be shown
on national television. We told him it wouldn't be shown
on national television, and then concentrated back on
Maxine, but it seemed he was getting more and more anxious
to be interviewed and then he said the television interview
we wanted to do with him was not to be shown on the national
network, and he could give us that assurance he would
talk to us on television.
MR KHALIL
did you comply with the request from him?
RACHEL
DANE
yes, we actually made him declare at the beginning of
the recording that he did not wish the interview to be
shown anywhere outside the region, the East.
MR KHALIL
I am going to play the tape that was prepared.
(Video played)
MR KHALIL
that was the end of that interview. the other voice that
we heard at the beginning of that tape, who is that?
RACHEL DANE
that was Sean Whitemore, my cameraman .
MR
KHALIL
I think you ran it and stopped the film. Did you hear
the phone ring?
RACHEL DANE
yes.
MR KHALIL
Did anyone answer that?
RACHEL DANE
Maxine answered.
MR KHALIL
what conversation did you hear, please?
RACHEL
DANE
she spoke briefly and then she passed it to Ian Huntley
saying, "Ian, it is your dad." Did you hear
what Ian had to say?
RACHEL DANE
yes, he said to his dad that he had just done an interview
with local television and he said he hoped that ould keep
the rest of the media off his back.
MR
KHALIL
anything asked further about the broadcast and what had
just occurred?
RACHEL DANE
they wanted to know when it would be shown and we told
them it was to be shown later on that day.
MR
KHALIL
indeed, was footage from those interviews later broadcast?
RACHEL DANE
yes.
MR KHALIL
had a- about how long were you in the home with those
two people?
RACHEL DANE
about three quarters of an hour.
MR
KHALIL
wait there please. There will be other questions.
(Cross-examined by MR COWARD)
MR COWARD
the interviews were done to be shown on BBC Look East
television?
RACHEL DANE
yes.
MR COWARD
you are based in Norwich. is Grimsby served by Look East?
RACHEL DANE
no.
MR COWARD
would that be Yorkshire Television?
RACHEL
DANE
that would be BBC Look North.
MR COWARD
so anybody living in Grimsby, unless they had special
equipment, wouldn't see the broadcast that was put out
by Look East?
RACHEL DANE
no.
MR COWARD
thank you.
(Cross-examined by MR HUBBARD)
MR HUBBARD
your cameraman mentioned to you that the interview was
in the past tense?
RACHEL DANE
yes.
MR HUBBARD
in fact, you pitched the interview in the past tense,
didn't you? I'm not being critical, but if we look at
page 3 of the transcript, after the introductions you
say "Maxine, you were the teaching assistant of the
school, what kind of involvement did you have with Holly
and Jessica?"
RACHEL DANE
correct.
MR HUBBARD
and she replied in the same tense, didn't she, and you
pitched it in the past tense because she was then a teaching
assistant, you knew she was?
RACHEL
DANE
correct, but the second time when she made her second
mistake, when we had restarted the tape, the questions
I asked then were not in the past tense, but she still
slipped into the past tense.
MR HUBBARD
yes, as I said, she was talking about her involvement
with the children, what they were like, when she was a
teacher.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
I think this is a sort of argument, really.
MR HUBBARD
the point is made.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
the Jury have the point plaintiff. You are talking about
a relationship that happened in the past. You might use
the past tense and the Jury can make what you will.
MR HUBBARD
that's the point.
(The witness withdrew)
MR KHALIL
I call Shaun Whitemore, 1704 .
(Shaun
Whitemore, sworn)
Examined by MR KHALIL
MR KHALIL
your full name, please.
SHAUN WHITMORE
Shaun David Whitemore.
MR KHALIL
are you a cameraman working for BBC Look East?
SHAUN WHITMORE
that's correct.
MR KHALIL
In August last year you went with your colleague
RACHEL DANE
to the home of Ian Huntley and Maxine Carr on Saturday
10th August?
SHAUN WHITMORE
Correct.
MR KHALIL
that was- with a view, if you could, to conduct interviews
with one or other or both of them?
SHAUN
WHITMORE
That's correct.
MR KHALIL
we have heard already from your colleague you were allowed
into the home and, indeed, interviews were then conducted
and filmed.
SHAUN WHITMORE
that's correct.
MR KHALIL
you took part in that process.
SHAUN
WHITMORE
yes.
MR KHALIL
we have heard, and have the transcript, that in the first
interview the past tense was used in discussion of the
girls and the interview then stopped and recommenced did
you have anything to do with that?
SHAUN
WHITMORE
I did, yes, I actually stopped the interview and felt
that it wasn't right to be done in the past tense.
MR KHALIL
did you express a reason why or simply keep the reason
to yourself?
SHAUN WHITMORE
no, I did express why, and it was because I felt that
the families wouldn't want to hear the girls spoken about
in the past tense.
MR KHALIL
so was the interview recommenced?
SHAUN
WHITMORE
yes.
MR KHALIL
with a view to being, as it were, in the present tense?
SHAUN WHITMORE
That's correct.
MR KHALIL
I need not take you through what happened thereafter because
we have just seen it. whilst you were in the home, you
were able to, no doubt, observe both the people and the
property to some degree?
SHAUN WHITMORE
correct.
MR KHALIL
What was the condition of the house like, please?
SHAUN WHITMORE
the house was very clean and tidy.
MR
KHALIL
and the manner and demeanour of Ian Huntley whilst you
were there?
SHAUN WHITMORE
the manner of Ian Huntley was very calm, cool and collected,
really.
MR KHALIL
and Miss Carr?
SHAUN WHITMORE
very jumpy, nervous, very twitchy.
MR
KHALIL
we have heard the interview then came to an end; there
was a phone call and you left, is that right?
SHAUN WHITMORE
that's correct.
MR KHALIL
if you wait there there may be other questions for you.
MR COWARD
my Lord, I have no questions.
MR HUBBARD
I have no questions.
MR LATHAM
I will read the statement of Kim Riley at 170 8. "
I am Kim Riley, employed as a journalist for the BBC Look
East. I have been employed as such 20 years. On Wednesday,
August 2002 I was employed in Soham in Cambridgeshire,
covering two schoolgirls, Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman,
who at that time were missing. the purpose of my role
there was to reflect the mood in the village after the
news that the earth mounds that had been discovered and
feared to be the two girls' graves, were in fact no way
connected. I interviewed a number of people in the main
street to reflect and record their feelings and relief.
I (inaudible) Maxine.
(break in transcript)
(Video played)
MR KHALIL
I now read, please, the statement of Benedict McCarthy.
Benedict John McCarthy, employed by BBC based in London.
"during August of 2002, I was a BBC news correspondent
for the Midlands area. At that time I was based in Birmingham.
my job as a TV journalist involved reporting on news items,
interviewing people and compiling reports for main national
TV bulletins. The job involved travelling round the Midlands
area together with a producer and camera person. On Monday
15th August 2002 I was en route
(break
in transcript).
I arrived in Soham during the afternoon,
DEBBIE
TUBBY
was the producer. on Monday, 5th August 2002 I presented
a TV report for BBC National News, at 6 p.m. shortly after
10 p.m. later report, I first met a man, the caretaker
for Soham Village College and lived in the grounds. I
discovered him to be Ian Huntley." He then deals
with other events, I need not trouble the courts with,
and move to Wednesday 14th August, page 1796. "On
Wednesday, 14th August 2002 I attended the home of Ian
Huntley, which was situated adjacent to the Soham Village
College car park. Debbie had made an appointment for us
and another cameraman to visit Huntley for an interview.
we arrived shortly after the 6 p.m. bulletin had gone
out. at about 6.15 p.m. we knocked at front door, which
was answered by Ian Huntley. he initially said he was
having his tea and was not keen to let us in. I told him
it wouldn't take long, about five minutes and we would
be in and out. He agreed to let us in. we entered the
front door and I was aware of a female in the living room
to my left. We walked through the kitchen and out into
the back garden. (inaudible) I heard barking, but did
not see into another room out of sight. we got into the
garden where Debbie and the cameraman remained. Huntley
and I returned to the kitchen. I was explaining to him
we needed to get footage of us walking into the garden
a shot before we began to speak on camera. we were in
the kitchen for two or three minutes while the camera
was set up. whilst in there, I noticed there was a boil-in-the-bag
curry boiling away in a pan on the stove. When I asked
Huntley what he was having, he told me curry. I noticed
a thick paperback book on the work top and I also noticed
the kitchen was absolutely immaculate, pristine, despite
not being the a (inaudible)? The kitchen, I recall had
no lino on the floor. The cleanliness of that room was
noticeable. The house or bits I saw were equally clean.
I interviewed Huntley, the interview was filmed, the unedited
footage has been supplied to the police." I will
play that footage in a moment. When we finished there
was a little conversation That I recall him saying he
hoped it helped. We made our way back through the house,
retracing our steps to the front door , I shook hands
with Huntley at the front door and thanked him. I didn't
get to meet Maxine Carr and I didn't see the dog (Video
played) I now now read the statement of Toby Alexander
Dominic Carson, 1801. chronology page 15, towards the
foot of that page. *Tony Alexander Dominic Carson is deputy
newscaster employed by ITN London. "on the evening
of 15th August 2002 there was a community meeting in Soham,
where press were excluded. after the conference, I wanted
to get some local reaction to what had been said. I was
aware of a colleague speaking to Ian Huntley, who appeared
to be arranging an interview at his home address. As soon
as she had left I went to Ian Huntley's house to try and
get an interview. I knocked on the door and Ian Huntley
answered. I asked him if he had a couple of minutes to
spare for ITN to discuss the contents of the public meeting.
He was having a cigarette and said he would but he wanted
to finish his cigarette. I could see Maxine Carr sat in
the living room watching TV, and asked Huntley if she
would also mind being interviewed. Without consulting
with her he told me she did not and she was tired. Once
he had finished his cigarette he came and stood on the
doorstep to give the interview. I then conducted a short
interview with Huntley, footage of which was broadcast
the same evening". I will just play that - it should
be the next in the bundle.
(Video played)
MR KHALIL
can I read the statement of Jacqueline Doris abler, page
91. Jacqueline Doris Kabler, employed as a journalist
by ... over the page "On Thursday, 15th August 2002,
at about 9.30 to 10 pm, I went over to Ian Huntley's house
after the community meeting, to try and arrange an interview
with him. Maxine Carr came to the door and I asked if
Huntley, Ian Huntley, was inside. She invited me into
the hallway and called him. We spoke for about five minutes
and I arranged to interview him the following morning
at 8 am at his address. I didn't want him to come over
to our satellite truck in the - did want him, sorry, to
come to our satellite truck to be interviewed at 8.10
am, but he refused. He said he didn't want to leave the
college grounds. During the time I spoke to him on the
Thursday night, just exchanged pleasantries and such.
I cannot recall what was said. A large amount of time
there I spent trying to persuade him to give a live interview
in the High Street; he had already stated he was adamant
he would not leave the college grounds. While I was speaking
to him at the house Maxine Carr was stood behind him.
I remember she appeared very pale, she smiled and nodded
a few times but didn't really speak. . The following morning,
I called at Ian Huntley's house just before 8 a.m., but
did not get a reply initially. After a few minutes Huntley
walked across from the direction of the college. He started
the interview shortly afterwards just outside 5 College
Close". I will play the interview, it is the last
one.
{Video played}.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
do you want a break? 10 minutes, quarter past.
{short adjournment}.
MR
JUSTICE MOSES
yes.
MR KHALIL
Dawn Elizabeth Knight, please. page 167
(Dawn
Elizabeth Knight, sworn)
Examined by MR KHALIL.
MR KHALIL
your name, please?
DAWN KNIGHT
DAWN KNIGHT.
MR KHALIL
are you employed as journalist by Masons News Service
in Cambridge?
DAWN KNIGHT
I was until August.
MR KHALIL
you were until August of?
DAWN KNIGHT
this year.
MR KHALIL
I want to ask you about August of last year, please. Friday,
9th August. Were you involved in the pursuit of information
for the media about the disappearance of the two girls
Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman?
DAWN
KNIGHT
I was.
MR KHALIL
and during the afternoon of Friday, 9th August, was there
a press conference in the College Hall?
DAWN
KNIGHT
yes.
MR KHALIL
did you attend that press conference?
DAWN
KNIGHT
yes.
MR KHALIL
and as you were going towards the exit, did you see somebody
there?
DAWN KNIGHT
I did.
MR KHALIL
who was that?
DAWN KNIGHT
Ian Huntley.
MR KHALIL
was there a person with him or nearby?
DAWN
KNIGHT
there was a lady with him in the same room.
MR KHALIL
who was that?
DAWN KNIGHT
Maxine Carr.
MR KHALIL
where were they?
DAWN KNIGHT
they were in what you might call the reception area.
MR KHALIL
is there an office in that vicinity?
DAWN
KNIGHT
it is an enclosed area.
MR KHALIL
did you tap on the glass there and speak with them?
DAWN KNIGHT
yes.
MR KHALIL
and did you introduce yourself or what, tell us how it
began?
DAWN KNIGHT
yes, I introduced myself as a reporter and said I would
like to speak to them.
MR KHALIL
right, and their response?
DAWN KNIGHT
they agreed.
MR KHALIL
did they both agree or a just one of them?
DAWN
KNIGHT
Ian Huntley looked at Maxine. She said yes, it was fine.
MR KHALIL
did you go into where they were in that little office
area?
DAWN KNIGHT
Yes.
MR KHALIL
did you then speak with them?
DAWN KNIGHT
yes.
MR KHALIL
did you take notes of what was said whilst you were there?
DAWN KNIGHT
a fair bit of it.
MR KHALIL
did you let them know you would be taking notes or not?
DAWN KNIGHT
yes I did let them know.
MR KHALIL
would you like to have a copy of those notes with you
now?
DAWN KNIGHT
please.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
what page are you on.
MR KHALIL
my Lord the top of 1671.
MR JUSTICE
MOSES
yes.
MR KHALIL
I think you made some shorthand notes and then transcribed
them in due course, is that right?
DAWN
KNIGHT
yes.
MR KHALIL
can you help us then, please, as to how the conversation
went between the three of you there as you were speaking?
DAWN KNIGHT
I was asking questions. Some of the time Ian Huntley was
speaking, some of the time Maxine Carr would speak.
MR KHALIL
as best you can, take us through what occurred and when
one was speaking and the other was speaking can you tell
us, please?
DAWN KNIGHT
take you through as written here?
MR
KHALIL
yes. don't just take a through the notes, tell us what
happened. I think you didn't note everything, did you?
DAWN KNIGHT
no.
MR KHALIL
Use them as a----
MR JUSTICE MOSES
Where are those notes.
MR KHALIL
she has them. They are by the top hole punch of 1671.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
I see, yes, thank you.
MR KHALIL
shorthand notes then transcribed.
MR
JUSTICE MOSES
I see. have I got those.
MR KHALIL
they are in the exhibit bundle. I am sorry, they are not
in the----?
DAWN KNIGHT
okay. we were going to talk about how they felt about
the media being around their house, the college, and Ian
Huntley told me that he had given a statement to the police.
He talked a little bit about his sighting of the girls,
but not very much about that. he was saying that the police
weren't invading his privacy by circling his house or
anything, but essentially the press were. Maxine was saying
that they were there by the house trying to take pictures
through the windows. she was quite disturbed about it
I think. She goes on to say every time she set foot outside
her house, there would be somebody there wanting to take
her picture. Goes on to say that she wasn't getting much
sleep, they were both very concerned by what was happening.
Then Ian Huntley went on to tell about his involvement
in the police search .
MR KHALIL
what did he say of that?
DAWN KNIGHT
he said if it's quite involved he was helping because
he knew the local area, he was helping the police co-ordinate
the search around the school area.
MR
KHALIL
was that it?
DAWN KNIGHT
he seemed quite involved in the police search.
MR KHALIL
go on?
DAWN KNIGHT
we also talked about some parts of the conversation were
off the record, I didn't record. I promised I wouldn't
reveal them as a source.
MR JUSTICE
MOSES
I'm not hearing any of this.
MR KHALIL
some parts of the conversation were said to be off the
record yes. We were talking about another gentleman that
Mr Huntley thought may be involved in this case. He suggested
I got in touch with the police and put this name forward.
MR KHALIL
did he give you the identity of that person?
DAWN KNIGHT
he gave me a name, yes.
MR KHALIL
Did he say how he knew that person?
DAWN
KNIGHT
He said the gentleman was a former caretaker before him.
MR KHALIL
about how long were you with them there?
DAWN
KNIGHT
I would say about 15 minutes.
MR KHALIL
what was Mr Huntley's manner and demeanour?
DAWN KNIGHT
he was quite calm. He was concerned that he was going
to be revealed, that I should keep his identity a secret,
he was quite helpful, he seemed to want to answer questions.
I didn't - he seemed perfectly natural.
MR
KHALIL
and Miss Carr?
DAWN KNIGHT
she seemed, to talk as well. She seemed quite upset. When
we talked about the media, at one point she began to cry.
she was quite distraught but seemed pleasant.
MR KHALIL
you then left the office, did you, indicated you may get
in touch with them in the future?
DAWN
KNIGHT
yes.
MR KHALIL
And did they give you contact details?
DAWN
KNIGHT
I took a mobile phone number and I gave them mine.
MR KHALIL
and?
DAWN KNIGHT
I gave them my number.
MR KHALIL
You gave them yours. Whose mobile number was it you thought
you had taken?
DAWN KNIGHT
I was unsure, I think it may have been Maxine's.
MR KHALIL
would you wait there, there may be some other questions.
Cross-examined by MR COWARD
MR COWARD
if you look at your notes, Miss Knight, you will see it
was Maxine - very early on in your notes you have Maxine
Carr, 25 and then 'MOB' and a number?
DAWN
KNIGHT
yes.
MR COWARD
thank you.
MR KHALIL
I have no other questions.
MR JUSTICE
MOSES
thank you very much.
(The witness withdrew)
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