| Flowers in Gods Garden - Holly Wells
and Jessica Chapman - Documents |
24/11/03 - Soham Trial Transcript
Monday, 24 November 2003
SKY News
Richard Latham is the chief prosecutor; his colleague
on the prosecution team is Karim Khalil QC. Stephen Coward
QC is Ian Huntley's defence barrrister. Michael Hubbard
QC is Maxine Carr's defence lawyer. Mr Justice Moses is
the judge. Other witnesses and lawyers are introduced
as they appear.
Page 01 02
03
MR LATHAM
HELEN DAVEY , please, page 5052.
(HELEN
DAVEY, sworn)
MR LATHAM
will you start please by telling us your full name.
HELEN DAVEY
HELEN DAVEY.
MR LATHAM
and you are a forensic scientist I think, is that right?
HELEN DAVEY
that's correct.
MR LATHAM
and based at the forensic science laboratory at Huntingdon?
HELEN DAVEY
that is correct, yes.
MR LATHAM
would you tell us your qualifications, please?
HELEN DAVEY
Bachelor of Science, Doctor of Philosophy, Chartered Biologist
and Member of the Institute of Biology.
MR
LATHAM
I think you have been employed now by the forensic science
services for about 8 years, is that correct?
HELEN DAVEY
I have worked for the forensic science service for about
three years. I have worked as a forensic scientist for
in excess of 9.
MR LATHAM
yes. I think in August of last year you were aware of
the disappearance of Jessica Chapman and Holly Wells and
of the general nature of the whole thing that had been
in at the time of their disappearance?
HELEN
DAVEY
I was, yes.
MR LATHAM
on the morning of 17th August you were asked to go to
Soham Village College by the Cambridgeshire Constabulary,
were you not?
HELEN DAVEY
I was, yes.
MR LATHAM
I think you went with a colleague,
ROGER
BLACKMORE
, and you particularly were asked to examine the hangar
area where a bin had been discovered containing garments
which seemed to have been a burned or partially burned?
HELEN DAVEY
that's correct, yes.
MR LATHAM
I will get your colleague to describe the building itself,
the Jury can take it as familiar, both with the external
appearance and the sports end of the hangar which had
the yellow bins in it. I think the bin you were specifically
interested in was removed to the Huntingdon laboratory
was it?
HELEN DAVEY
it was, yes. yes.
MR LATHAM
Can you help us with how it was when you first saw it?
had it been emptied, for example?
HELEN
DAVEY
it had not.
MR LATHAM
as far as you were aware, had its integrity remained intact
from shortly after its discovery the previous night?
HELEN DAVEY
I was aware that a police officer had looked inside it.
What he had seen - I understood that he may have touched
items inside.
MR LATHAM
but thereafter, as you understood it, the bin had remained
as it were (inaudible) until you had got to it after the
officer had found it and touched the items inside.
MR LATHAM
there are a number of photographs. I am going to take
you through them. I think that was the bin recovered to
the laboratory, was it?
HELEN DAVEY
It is, yes.
MR LATHAM
I see have you got a number of documents with you; a file
and indeed it may be a bound book as well. Can you just
help my Lord and the Jury with what those documents are?
HELEN DAVEY
I have got copies of examination notes made at the time,
copies of notes I made at the time, photographs and my
statements.
MR LATHAM
I don't think there is any dispute that the bins are about
80 centimetres high and 47 centimeters in diameter?
HELEN DAVEY
If I could refer to my statement.
MR
LATHAM
do so as you go along. I'm sure my Lord - I don't think
there is any dispute about that.
MR
LATHAM
what was the appearance of the bin before we get to specifics?
HELEN DAVEY
it was a cylindrical yellow plastic bin with grey bags
containing a removable yellow liner. The bin measured
80 centimeters in height and 47 centimeters in diameter.
It appeared relatively new and in good condition.
MR LATHAM
did you notice something present on the inner surface
of the metal liner?
HELEN DAVEY
Yes, There was soot marks present.
MR
LATHAM
I think your colleague, ROGER BLACKMORE was deputed to
deal with aspects relating to burning marks, wasn't he?
HELEN DAVEY
Yes.
MR LATHAM
the first thing I think you came across in the bin was
the plastic bin liner which we can see in the photograph
on the screen. is that correct?
HELEN
DAVEY
It is, yes.
MR LATHAM
I think you decided that that should be removed and handed
on to others for forensic examination, correct?
HELEN DAVEY
that's correct, yes.
MR LATHAM
my Lord, of course we get the fingerprint evidence relating
to that. I don't think any fibre or debris tapings or
body fluid examinations were undertaken on that item.
HELEN DAVEY
That's correct, for reasons stated it was my opinion that
it might damage potential fingerprint evidence.
MR LATHAM
I think that is a consideration you have to apply as a
forensic scientist whenever you are confronted with an
exhibit?
HELEN DAVEY
that's correct.
MR LATHAM
can you please tell us in a little detail what you have
to think about before you do anything and conduct any
test?
HELEN DAVEY
there is always competing priorities for what evidence
types came from mats, so for example fibre taking means
recovery of surface debris and fibres that adhere to the
top of surface garments and that we use pieces of sellotape,
press them on the surface, remove them and stick them
on to a sheet of clear plastic. But to do such test, can
reduce fingerprint evidence so sometimes you have to judge
what the best type of evidence might be from different
types of articles. Similarly testing on blood can require
rubbing a piece of paper on the surface and applying chemicals
to the piece of paper and, again, that general blood screening
can effect types of evidence.
MR LATHAM
you have to apply that judgment to the bin liner?
HELEN DAVEY
yes.
MR LATHAM
and felt you would put fibre tapings and potential body
fluid examination to one side and let somebody else concentrate
on the fingerprint aspect?
HELEN DAVEY
that's correct, yes.
MR LATHAM
I think the first item you looked at in detail was your
HNT 3?
HELEN DAVEY
yes.
MR LATHAM
HNT 3. if we just- we are looking at the two sides of
the same piece of the garment. It is the same exhibit,
but looked at, photographed on both sides. Now can you
describe that piece of garment, please?
HELEN
DAVEY
Well, as you can see from the photograph, if it is part
of a short sleeved red sports top, comprising mainly the
right hand side and back, and black and white edging trim
present around the right sleeve and the neck line. the
white ----.
MR LATHAM
what appears to have happened to it?
HELEN
DAVEY
it appears to have been cut up the right front from hem
to neck line and also across the front of the shoulder
from the edge of the sleeve to the neck line.
MR LATHAM
was there, apart from the cutting to it, one other type
of damage to it?
HELEN DAVEY
yes, there is charring to the item, particularly at the
back.
MR LATHAM
now, I think you did a chemical test which indicated the
possible presence of saliva, right?
HELEN
DAVEY
that is correct, yes.
MR LATHAM
did you try and do a DNA or obtain a DNA profile, you
or the forensic science services?
HELEN
DAVEY
yes.
MR LATHAM
from that possible presence of saliva and I think no profiles
were obtained?
HELEN DAVEY
that's correct.
MR LATHAM
my Lord, at this point it may assist the Jury if we go
through this evidence to have some admissions which list
the garments in the order in which we are going to look
at them?
MR JUSTICE MOSES
again, ladies and gentlemen these are further admissions
that save a lot evidence being given to prove what something
purports to be, is actually what it says it is. It is
admissions about clothing and times - subject of forensic
tests.
MR LATHAM
for the Jury's assistance, do you have a copy of these
admissions or not? On the second page, Members of the
Jury, it is because the very first item after the bin
liner that came out with HNT 3 - you see it, second page?
I'm going to go through what is now accepted was the clothing
worn by Jessica; first all in one go and then go back
to the clothing worn by Holly. I don't think of course
at the time that you, Miss Davey, as you were bringing
the items out of the bin, knew to which girl they could
be attributed, did you?
HELEN DAVEY
I didn't.
MR LATHAM
you were just taking the individual items out, some of
which you could jigsaw-fit together?
HELEN
DAVEY
yes.
MR LATHAM
we looked at the photographs, both sites of HNT 3 you
describe as being cut and also charred. The other half
of the same shirt, HNT 6, the photograph of it, if we
look now, HNT 6 came out as a number of bits of clothing
all very much joined together, didn't it?
HELEN
DAVEY
yes.
MR LATHAM
we can see there a piece of obviously similar red shirt-type
fibre. can you describe to us the condition of that part
of HNT 6 which was the red football top, please?
HELEN DAVEY
As you have indicated it was number of items including
a shoe, a pair of tracksuit bottoms and the piece of red
football shirt you mentioned.
MR LATHAM
just deal, if you will, with the shirt, please?
HELEN DAVEY
Part of a short-sleeved red sports top comprising numbering
on right hand side up - were back trim present around
the sleeve around neck line, the words Manchester United
were present and the letters Vodafone across the chest.
MR LATHAM
the label indicated its size, did not?
HELEN
DAVEY
It indicated it was size 30 inches or 146 centimeters.
MR LATHAM
did you compare it with the first item you described,
HNT 3?
HELEN DAVEY
I did, yes.
MR LATHAM
What did you find?
HELEN DAVEY
It was possible to form a perfect physical fit between
the two items in several areas. In my opinion these two
pieces of fabric had formed one item and there were no
significantly sized pieces of fabric missing.
MR LATHAM
I think at a later stage, in order to try and simplify
what you have been describing about this shirt, the police
obtained for you two shirts and two pairs of trousers
of the same size as the two pairs of trousers and two
shirts found in pieces in the bin, did they not?
HELEN DAVEY
they did.
MR LATHAM
and you marked these shirts in a particular way, did you
not?
HELEN DAVEY
I did.
MR LATHAM
just describe what you did?
HELEN DAVEY
looking at this piece of garment here and HNT 3 we saw
I marked the whole garment indicating how the cuts had
been made to render the shirt in two.
MR
LATHAM
I would like you to have those four items now, please.
Take them out of the bag, please, just handle the items.
I think for ease of explanation they were obtained in
white so you could mark them with a black felt tip?
HELEN DAVEY
that's correct.
MR LATHAM
can you take the 30 inch, the 146 centimeters garment,
please. Is that it?
HELEN DAVEY
yes.
MR LATHAM
if you could hold it up so my Lord and the Jury can see
it, thank you?
MR JUSTICE MOSES
just make sure the Jury can see it.
MR
LATHAM
you have actually marked HNT 3 and HNT 6 on it to show
which is which?
HELEN DAVEY
I have, yes.
MR LATHAM
if you turn it back the to the back the Jury can see the
cut line; a jagged cut running from top to bottom.
HELEN DAVEY
that's correct.
MR LATHAM
its also cut along, you describe, one of the sleeves?
HELEN DAVEY
(inaudible) on the top of the right shoulder (inaudible)
across the back.
MR LATHAM
although we can see it is a jagged line, are you able
to say in which direction it was cut, in other words looking
at the cut on the front of the garment, whether it was
a cut from bottom to top, or top to bottom?
HELEN DAVEY
no.
MR LATHAM
Apart from the cut lines, did you find any other penetrating
damage to the fabric which you did not associate with
the lines in it, if I can put it that way?
HELEN
DAVEY
I did not.
MR LATHAM
so any other penetration of the fabric?
HELEN
DAVEY
no.
MR LATHAM
can we turn to TNT 2 A please, pair of blue tracksuit
bottoms?
HELEN DAVEY
Yes.
MR LATHAM
we see in two parts on the screen, the bottom part and
the top part of this item. And that's the inside of the
same garment?
HELEN DAVEY
Yes.
MR LATHAM
what had happened to this item?
HELEN
DAVEY
jagged cuts extended all the way up the left leg from
the hem to the thigh area, across the front and to the
waistband at the right front, from the front right waistband
around the garment on to the right back and up around
the right leg.
MR LATHAM
can you find, of the two pairs of trousers you have got
there, the relevant ones, I think they were a 21 and 22
inch waist band, weren't they? have you marked those again
with the relevant exhibit label?
HELEN
DAVEY
I have.
MR LATHAM
so that's HNT 4 A and I think. Can you hold that up again
so my Lord can see and the Jury can see, you marked where
it was cut, have you not?
HELEN DAVEY
I have.
MR LATHAM
in relation to these items, I think some smaller pieces
of fabric had become detached, hadn't they?
HELEN DAVEY
they had.
MR LATHAM
did you find those pieces in the bin?
HELEN
DAVEY
several of them were found and some could be fitted back
from where they had originated. However, the right hand
waist pocket had been cut through and part was missing
and certainly a rubber logo bearing the word Protraining
had been cut through at the upper seam of the right leg
and part of this rubberised logo was also missing and
some fragments of fibre were missing additionally. The
bottom of the right leg was charred.
MR
LATHAM
then there were two pairs of Nike trainers, size four,
HNT and HNT 10, were they not?
HELEN
DAVEY
yes, previously we referred to HNT 6 which was part of
the top.
MR LATHAM
we have the photograph on the screen now, we can see the
right hand edge of this photograph, shoe mixed up with
the two other times, one of which was part of the shirt
we looked at?
HELEN DAVEY
that's correct, yes.
MR LATHAM
and that became AD 3, one of your own exhibits, as it
were, a subsequent bit of what had originally been stuck
together as one, is that right?
HELEN
DAVEY
that's correct.
MR LATHAM
The other shoe, HNT 10, which we see in those two photographs?
HELEN DAVEY
yes.
MR LATHAM
can you just describe how those two shoes were when you
looked at them, first of all HNT 10; first of all do you
have size for them?
HELEN DAVEY
Yes, a size four Nike trainer with a red tick design and
zigzag sole pattern. The shoe comprised a pair with that
HNT 6. The laces were tied in a bow, the shoes were charred
- particularly to the back aspect.
MR
LATHAM
we can see in the photograph the condition of the other
shoe?
HELEN DAVEY
yes.
MR LATHAM
were those 3 items the track suit bottoms part of the
first shirt and the other shoe, as it were, three discrete
things or were they all sort of welded together by heat
damage?
HELEN DAVEY
yes, they were stuck together, melted on to each other.
MR LATHAM
HNT 9 was a pair of briefs I think, wasn't it?
HELEN DAVEY
yes, that is correct.
MR LATHAM
did they have size on them?
HELEN DAVEY
they were size seven to eight years or 122 to 128 centimeters.
MR LATHAM
Were they damaged apart from being obviously dirty?
HELEN DAVEY
cuts had been made from the leg trim to the waist band
at both sides of the front panel.
MR
LATHAM
that pair of briefs, the cuts you have described, did
it run right from the leg actually up to the waist?
HELEN DAVEY
that's correct, on each side.
MR LATHAM
on each side, right the way up. together with HNT 4, that's
the track suit bottoms, did you find something that became
HNT 4 B, which we can see in this photograph alongside
the track suit bottom which we have already looked at?
HELEN DAVEY
yes.
MR LATHAM
when did you find those two items that we can see in the
photograph, before you describe it?
HELEN
DAVEY
when received, the left-hand waist pocket of the track
suit bottom {inaudible} contained within the pocket was
a bracelet and part consumed packet of polo mints.
MR LATHAM
the bracelet was I think what you described as a dolphin
bracelet, was it not?
HELEN DAVEY
yes.
MR LATHAM
a small dolphin we can actually see within the blue part
of the bracelet?
HELEN DAVEY
yes, there is a silver coloured rectangular metal (inaudible)
blue and grey enameled Dolphin.
MR LATHAM
I think the bracelet was intact wasn't it?
HELEN
DAVEY
it was.
MR LATHAM
that deals with the items of clothing, which were later
identified as having been worn by Jessica. Go back to
the first page of the admissions, Members of the Jury,
where we start with the clothing later identified as being
worn by Holly Wells and can I ask you to look at HNT 5.
We see a photograph, do we not, on the screen? That's
the front and back of that garment. can you describe that
to us, first of all by size?
HELEN DAVEY
it was 134 centimeters, red Manchester United football
top.
MR LATHAM
that was smaller than the other shirt, which was a 416
centimeters shirt, HNT 6?
HELEN DAVEY
yes, that's correct.
MR LATHAM
we see it in the photograph, it is not entirely clear
whether or not it is, as it were, intact or damaged -
although we can just see where the arrow is sliding across
the garment. You can see a black line, can't you? would
you get, please, the other white shirt, that's HNT 5,
and hold that up, please and show us the condition in
which you found it thank you. so this one had a vertical
cut at the front, correct?
HELEN DAVEY
yes.
MR LATHAM
and then across the two sleeves if I can put it that way?
HELEN DAVEY
that's correct, yes.
MR LATHAM
the back was intact, was it?
HELEN DAVEY
(inaudible).
MR LATHAM
again, apart from the cut damage, were there other any
other penetrations of the garment not associated with
the cutting lines you have described?
HELEN
DAVEY
no .
MR LATHAM
HNT 6, against what I might describe as the one exhibit,
which has three compartments, a part of a top and now
tracksuit bottoms. this is a blue Reebok tracksuit bottom,
is it not?
HELEN DAVEY
that's correct.
MR LATHAM
what size?
HELEN DAVEY
28, sorry 26 inch. were they a draw string waist, I think?
HELEN DAVEY
yes.
MR LATHAM
had that been cut?
HELEN DAVEY
yes, jagged cut ran the whole length of the outer aspect
of the right leg and up to the waist band.
MR
LATHAM
it might help in order to describe it if you hold up the
last item?
HELEN DAVEY
(inaudible).
MR LATHAM
they are the right size I think, but obviously rather
bell bottomed, if I can put them that way.
MR
LATHAM
I think it isn't possible to fully determine the cuts
on that garment as a result of the burning damage. Is
that correct?
HELEN DAVEY
It was a small distance so it wasn't possible to definitively
say where it had been cut.
MR LATHAM
HNT 7, what was that?
HELEN DAVEY
this time was a black size 28 double A padded Marks and
Spencers bra.
MR LATHAM
how would it normally be fastened?
HELEN
DAVEY
the bra fastened at back and indeed it was received fastened.
MR LATHAM
so when you say it was received as you took it out of
the bin, or the contents of the bin that is the condition
it was in?
HELEN DAVEY
yes.
MR LATHAM
clipped at the back. what happened to that?
HELEN DAVEY
the bra had been cut in half at the centre front between
the cups resulting in one of the petals from the emboidered
flower having been cut off. There was an embroidered flower
design. additionally each of the straps had been cut on
the shoulder.
MR LATHAM
both sides?
HELEN DAVEY
yes.
MR LATHAM
we can see that in the photograph. HNT 8, would you describe
that, please?
HELEN DAVEY
this item was a pair of white cotton tango briefs with
a pink trim. They were Tesco brands size 9 to ten, height
140 centimeters, waist 58 centimeters and trimmed on the
front panel in pink and silver was the word Princess in
the design.
MR LATHAM
what happened to those knickers?
HELEN
DAVEY
the pink trim forming the waistband had been cut through
on both sides of the front panel.
MR
LATHAM
we can see that on the photograph, can't we? then finally,
two entirely separate items from the bin, HNT 11 and 12,
then Nike trainers, but a different size weren't they?
HELEN DAVEY
these were size 3 and had a blue tick design.
MR LATHAM
and how were the laces?
HELEN DAVEY
the laces were tied under the tongue and tucked inside
when received.
MR LATHAM
did you do chemical test on those shoes?
HELEN
DAVEY
Yes, the shoes were examined for blood.
MR
LATHAM
did you get some reaction?
HELEN DAVEY
a small visible blood stain was found on the letter of
the word Nike on the back of the heel of the right shoe.
MR LATHAM
was it possible, do you know, to get a DNA result from
that or not?
HELEN DAVEY
several attempts failed.
MR LATHAM
can you just explain to the Jury the procedure? If you
can identify something which looks as though it might
be a blood stain, albeit a very small stain a speck or
something like that, what is this process you go through?
HELEN DAVEY
first off the (inaudible) small brownish red stain would
have been found in the location mentioned. To confirm
that is blood, the appearance of blood, as I said, but
then also we do a chemical test, with a piece of filter
paper, a piece of blotting paper; wipe the stain, take
a tiny amount of stain on to the paper, drip some (inaudible)
on and, if it is blood, the colour changes reaction.
MR LATHAM
if it is confirmed as being blood what do you then do
with the balance of what is still on the items?
HELEN DAVEY
the remaining stain is then swabbed off using a cotton
bud and a (inaudible) is taken.
MR LATHAM
you have got a weak positive chemical reaction indicating
the presence of blood, but it was not possible to get
a DNA profile from it?
HELEN DAVEY
that's right, yes.
MR LATHAM
there is another miscellaneous item in the bottom of the
bin apart from the clothing we have now been through,
correct?
HELEN DAVEY
that's correct, yes.
MR LATHAM
can we look at HNT 30, please, a photograph? this was
rather like the items of clothing which were all melted
together, wasn't it?
HELEN DAVEY
it was, yes.
MR LATHAM
can you just describe what we have got here?
HELEN DAVEY
there is a bright yellow cleaning cloth which measures
about 43 by 35 and a half centimeters, melted and attached
to the cloth, as you see in the photograph, is a bit of
black bin liner with the hole on the original edge, a
laminate drinks bottle, black screw top cap, a blue and
red Milky bar Chunky wrapper.
MR LATHAM
I think I can summarise in this way, rather than going
through them all there were four different sweet wrappers,
weren't there, mixed up in this?
HELEN
DAVEY
that's correct, yes.
MR LATHAM
the primary items, the black bag and the duster?
HELEN DAVEY
yes.
MR LATHAM
HNT 30. HNT 40. What was that?
HELEN
DAVEY
this item was a bright yellow coloured duster with a red
hem. The duster was folded exactly in half, as you can
see in the picture, a positive reaction to a chemical
test indicated the possible presence of saliva was obtained
from the small area of (inaudible). This area was removed
and a DNA profile was attempted on it but no profile was
obtained.
MR LATHAM
TNT 50?
HELEN DAVEY
a machine-knitted dishcloth with two red hemmed edges,
yellow and turquoise staining to one side of the cloth
and a small blood stain was present on the cloth towards
one of the hemmed edges. Again, an attempt to obtain a
DNA profile from his stain was unsuccessful. one of the
hemmed edges of cloth was slightly charred and there was
a small piece of black melted polythene adhering to the
cloth.
MR LATHAM
we can see that in the photograph, the right hand edge?
HELEN DAVEY
that's correct, yes.
MR LATHAM
HNT 16,?
HELEN DAVEY
this item was a pale yellow coloured duster with red hem
edge. A positive reaction to a chemical test indicating
the presence of saliva was obtained from a small area.
Again this was removed, DNA profiling attempted but this
was unsuccessful.
MR LATHAM
in fact I have been going thoroughly some of miscellaneous
items which is on the third page of these admissions.
If you have not already found it, Members of the Jury,
I think your exhibit at the top of HD 4, you have extracted
as part of the knot of a black plastic bag, have you not?
HELEN DAVEY
Item HNT 6, the Reebok tracksuit bottoms, the right football
top and Nike trainer, they were all stuck together but
also the remains of a black plastic bag were on the garments
and the plastic was tied in a knot and the knot was badly
charred.
MR LATHAM
was it possible to identify what sort of knot it was?
we have got up photograph of HD 4 on the screen now, I
think that its the piece of plastic you are referring
to, isn't it?
HELEN DAVEY
it is, yes. It is honest, I'm not a specialist.
MR LATHAM
it is a knot?
HELEN DAVEY
it is a knot, yes.
MR LATHAM
then finally, as exhibit HNT 17, there were miscellaneous
debris found in the bottom of this bin, were there not?
HELEN DAVEY
that's correct, yes.
MR LATHAM
I am not, you will be relieved to hear, going through
each and every item. Some of them we can see in this photograph,
but were there quite a few sweet wrappers or, bits of
sweet wrapper mixed up the in the debris?
HELEN
DAVEY
bits and pieces of that, yes.
MR LATHAM
I think the remnants in the bottom, this is HNT 17, were
all mixed up together with two types of thing, weren't
they?
HELEN DAVEY
Cinders and vegetation and not readily identifiable material.
MR LATHAM
were all the fabric items, that is the garments, screened
for the chemical component of semen?
HELEN
DAVEY
they were.
MR LATHAM
again will you help the Jury with what you can do with
a garment?
HELEN DAVEY
they there were examined garments for semen. The slightly
web surface of the garment, press down a piece of blotting
paper, spray it off and spray it with the chemical and
if semen is present we get a colour reaction that goes
the bright purple in the area where semen is and then
confirm the semen by looking (inaudible).
MR
LATHAM
was any found, any indication of semen on any of these
garments?
HELEN DAVEY
when I screened the garments I got a lot of what I consider
false positive reactions, a lot of strange colours, browns,
reds purple, greys I didn't consider any of them to be
semen staining.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
so is the answer no?
HELEN DAVEY
yes, it is no.
MR LATHAM
the general nature of the garments, if I may, please.
What condition were all the garments in?
HELEN
DAVEY
they were all wet and smelt of accelerant to a greater
or lesser extent than when initially examined.
MR LATHAM
was there also a large amount of vegetation, including
leaves and twigs and seeds mixed up in the garments?
HELEN DAVEY
there was.
MR LATHAM
did you find a number of hairs?
HELEN
DAVEY
there was a large number of hairs including many of animal
origin noted (inaudible).
MR LATHAM
in due course I think one of your colleagues , and I shall
be calling him to give evidence this afternoon, my Lord,
PETER LAMB
, provided you with a number of items which have been
seized either from one of the bodies or from the site
where the bodies were found, very small pieces of fabric,
is that correct?
HELEN DAVEY
there was only actually one that I looked at.
MR LATHAM
I think that was in RBC23 which was seized at the post-mortem
and under the initials of the pathologist who conducted
the post mortem, Dr Carry. I think you were sent that,
weren't you?
HELEN DAVEY
yes.
MR LATHAM
if we look at that now on screen, what was it in fact?
HELEN DAVEY
it comprised a mesh piece of fabric and a sheer piece
of fabric with curved overlock seam and the edges together,
both of pieces of fabric were approximately semi-circular
and had jagged cut edges as the diameter.
MR
LATHAM
were you able to do something with that fabric?
HELEN DAVEY
I was just wanting to add one more point, when I looked
at is the sheet fabric it shows a small amount of distortion.
However, I compared the sighting with the area where the
left waist pocket of the Umbro track suit bottoms had
been cut away.
MR LATHAM
Jessica's tracksuit bottom, I think, HNT 4 A, page 2 of
our admissions, Members of the Jury. We can I think when
you compared the piece of fabric with the Umbro tracksuit
bottoms what did you find?
HELEN DAVEY
they were found to visually match in construction and
form a good physical fit.
MR LATHAM
if we now look at the next photograph, with it cleaned
up, we can see it laid alongside the tracksuit bottoms,
can't we?
HELEN DAVEY
yes.
MR LATHAM
that's what you are describing and what in your opinion
was the status of those two separate exhibits?
HELEN DAVEY
in my opinion they once formed one item.
MR
LATHAM
looking at the cuts on the track suit bottoms and the
football tops and, indeed, the cuts to the underwear,
can you say anything at all about what it was that made
those cuts?
HELEN DAVEY
particularly when considering the outer garments, the
nature and appearance which these jagged cuts indicate,
that they have been made by a relatively sharp pair of
scissors.
MR LATHAM
is it ever or sometimes possible to take an exhibit, a
pair of scissors, and say that exhibit made that cut just
by looking at the nature of the cut?
HELEN
DAVEY
I would think it is very unusual to get a strong degree
of association.
MR LATHAM
looking at the cuts generally what, if anything, do you
derive from the nature of the type of cuts, what the cuts
were for?
HELEN DAVEY
well, the location of the cuts on the garments indicates
that they have been made to allow the removal of garments
from the wearer or wearers while they were immobile.
MR LATHAM
while they were?
HELEN DAVEY
immobile.
MR LATHAM
and can you say anything about the cut edges?
HELEN DAVEY
some the cut edges of the fabric show fibre damage. However,
I have seen no areas where a cut passes through already
burn-damaged fabric and therefore see nothing to support
the assertion the garments have been cut off after they
have been damaged by fire. However, I cannot exclude that
entirely as the cuts may have been made such as the damage
that was already there was avoided.
MR
LATHAM
what you didn't find was scissor cuts going through damaged
fabric which had already been damaged before cuts were
made?
HELEN DAVEY
I found none.
MR LATHAM
you have already described the partially melted black
plastic bag with the knot in it which was, indeed, associated
with one of your exhibits which you described that were
sub-divided in the last half on hour or so?
HELEN DAVEY
Yes.
MR LATHAM
what conclusion, if anything, did you derive from the
garments and how they were in the bin and the presence
of that the knotted, or remnant of knotted, black bin
liner?
HELEN DAVEY
well, given the nature and condition and close association
of these items, it is my opinion the garments, clothes
and shoes were present in the black bin liner when they
were burnt in the bin.
MR LATHAM
now, you described a number of sweet wrappers and so on
are you able to form any opinion about whether those very
small items of what I might describe as rubbish, were
in the bag with the clothes or whether they were in the
metal bin lining and had just been underneath the bag
when the bag was put in the bin and the fire set?
HELEN DAVEY
I think on balance I consider it more likely that they
have been in the bag with the garments, but I can't rule
out the possibility that some of or all of them were present
in the bottom of the bin.
MR LATHAM
Thank you very much. Will you wait there, please?
Cross-examined by MR COWARD
MR COWARD
Miss Davey, I will try and follow the sequences you have
in my cross-examination, so we are starting as it were
at the beginning and going through the account that you
have already given. The only blood that you found possibly
on any item was on one of shoes?
HELEN
DAVEY
I recall there was blood on a cloth as well?
MR COWARD
sorry?
HELEN DAVEY
I recall there was blood on one of the cloths as well.
HNT 15, the dish cloth.
MR COWARD
so far as that is concerned, are you confident that that
was blood?
HELEN DAVEY
I am.
MR COWARD
so far as the stain on the shoe is concerned, are you
confident that that stain was blood?
HELEN
DAVEY
on the letter I, yes I am.
MR COWARD
and that is the left trainer of Holly Wells?
HELEN DAVEY
it is the right trainer of Holly Wells.
MR
COWARD
thank you. when you went to the scene you went to the
hangar and looked in the bin, to begin with, what were
you able to see? your picture is coming up on the screen
which may assist you. Was that very much how it was when
you first saw it?
HELEN DAVEY
I have recorded it that a black bin liner was draped over
part of the top of the bin, appearing to be tucked between
the yellow and metal lining which appears to be there.
MR COWARD
once that black bin we can see on screen is lifted up,
you don't have to be a forensic scientist to see that
the items there have only partially been damaged by fire?
HELEN DAVEY
yes.
MR COWARD
it is obvious. can I look now at the clothing of Jessica
Chapman. TNT 3 is the red top and you described the jagged
line of that top and demonstrated on the white shirt to
the Jury how it runs?
HELEN DAVEY
yes.
MR COWARD
there is no evidence is there on this time of painstaking
and careful cutting of the item?
HELEN
DAVEY
absolutely not .
MR COWARD
it has all the hallmarks by the nature of the line of
the cut and generally, of something done hurriedly?
HELEN DAVEY
if I might compare them with medical intervention cuts,
they are very similar.
MR COWARD
can you expand on the meaning of that?
HELEN
DAVEY
quite often you get garments in the lab that have been
taken from victims of assault for example medical work
on people the garments are cut from them and it is typical
to see a cut across the front of the garment and across
the shoulders in this way.
MR COWARD
of course in that accident and emergency situation speed
is important?
HELEN DAVEY
yes.
MR COWARD
the quicker you get the clothing off the quicker the doctor
will do his job?
HELEN DAVEY
yes.
MR COWARD
you say there was no penetration of the fabric of the
Jessica Chapman red shirt. if there had been any stabbing
type injury, a knife a screwdriver anything, which had
reached her body in the upper part it would have had a
tug through the red material, wouldn't it?
HELEN
DAVEY
unless it was ruched up, yes.
MR COWARD
you found no evidence of any penetrating weapon having
gone through this red top at all, did you?
HELEN
DAVEY
I didn't.
MR COWARD
PNT 4 A is the blue Umbro bottoms of Jessica Chapman.
again, we see the same picture, don't we; jagged cuts,
consistent with the sort of situation you might meet in
Accident and Emergency?
HELEN DAVEY
yes.
MR COWARD
these track suit bottoms have a drawstring waist?
HELEN DAVEY
yes, they did.
MR COWARD
do you have any note as to whether the drawstring was
in the tied position or simply left loose?
HELEN
DAVEY
if I may consult my notes.
MR COWARD
please do?
HELEN DAVEY
I can actually see from one of the photographs in my notes
the drawstring fastens from the inside and they are in
just cross-over knot with the strings loose. There is
not a bow tied.
MR COWARD
so the half of the knot has been done but only half?
HELEN DAVEY
that's right yes.
MR COWARD
so it follows from that, does it, that if one wished to
remove the track suit bottoms by pulling them down there
was nothing to prevent that?
HELEN DAVEY
I guess so, but I don't know how close a fit they were.
MR COWARD
in fact the method of removal was to cut the material
to free the bottoms?
HELEN DAVEY
it was.
MR COWARD
HNT 9, Jessica Chapman's briefs. you found that they had
been cut at both sides and that was the----
HELEN DAVEY
I would say it had been done to remove them, yes.
MR COWARD
did you find any other sign of damage on these briefs?
HELEN DAVEY
no, I did not.
MR COWARD
did you look?
HELEN DAVEY
yes.
MR COWARD
obviously. In the pocket, of the blue Umbro bottoms you
found a Dolphin bracelet and a partly consumed packet
of polo mints?
HELEN DAVEY
correct, yes.
MR COWARD
those obviously weren't visible when you first examined
the bottoms, but all you had a to do was to unzip a pocket
and there they were?
HELEN DAVEY
yes, I personally unzipped the pocket.
MR
COWARD
we can see the bracelet is of quite a distinctive design,
isn't it?
HELEN DAVEY
it is, yes.
MR COWARD
those two items were still in the pocket of the bottoms
when you examined them?
HELEN DAVEY
they were.
MR COWARD
the clothing of Holly Wells now. the same style of jagged
cutting of the top - agreed?
HELEN DAVEY
yes.
MR COWARD
no stabbing penetrations of the top?
HELEN
DAVEY
yes.
MR COWARD
drawstring waist on Holly Wells bottoms?
HELEN
DAVEY
yes.
MR COWARD
can you just by looking at your notes if they help you,
tell us how the drawstring was fastened on Holly's?
HELEN DAVEY
there would appear to be the drawstring done up in a bow,
the drawstring has actually been cut through further along
from the bow by the action of cutting the garment.
MR COWARD
so the case of Holly's track suit bottoms, there is a
proper bow and the cut in the garment doesn't go through
the bow so you were able to see it is still intact?
HELEN DAVEY
I can see (inaudible) yes.
MR COWARD
which would lead to the conclusion that no-one had attempted
to undo the bow to remove the trousers?
HELEN
DAVEY
correct.
MR COWARD
Holly's bra, HNT 7, the fastening at the back of it was
a conventional bra fastening, was it not?
HELEN
DAVEY
I think it was hook and eye. hook and eye.
MR
COWARD
yes. It wouldn't require a great deal of skill to unhook
the hook and eye to remove the bra that way, would it?
HELEN DAVEY
no.
MR COWARD
but in fact that was not the method by which the bra was
removed, it was cut between the cups?
HELEN
DAVEY
it was, yes.
MR COWARD
HNT 6, please, Holly's briefs cut in similar fashion to
Jessica's up each side?
HELEN DAVEY
slightly different because of their different construction
but yes, just through the waist band.
MR
COWARD
there is just a thin waist band at the point of the cut
isn't there on Holly's briefs?
HELEN
DAVEY
yes.
MR COWARD
did you examine these briefs as you did with Jessica's,
with great care to see if you could find any sign of other
damage?
HELEN DAVEY
I did, yes.
MR COWARD
and did you find any?
HELEN DAVEY
no.
MR COWARD
HNT 11 and 12 are Holly Wells' trainers. You have described
how they were tied. could you just remind the Jury of
the fashion in which they were when you examined them?
HELEN DAVEY
I have recorded the laces were tied under the tongue and
tucked inside.
MR COWARD
when you say tied, are we back to half the granny knot
again and then tucked inside or fully tied and then tucked
inside or both?
HELEN DAVEY
both, all my notes record are laces tied on under side.
I haven't got any detail.
MR JUSTICE
MOSES
laces tied and then your voice dropped again?
HELEN DAVEY
laces tied on under side of tongue, that's all I have
got recorded and I can't remember beyond that.
MR COWARD
do you have any other detail with regard Jessica's trainers?
HELEN DAVEY
HNT 10, is this one of the ones you were meaning with
a tick? the notes record fastened in a bow.
MR COWARD
so that's the left trainer of Jessica fastened in a bow?
HELEN DAVEY
yes.
MR COWARD
we gather you weren't able to do a similar examination
of the right trainer ? is that HD 3? yes?
HELEN
DAVEY
from my pictures because of the close association and
meltings of the football shirt I can't be sure if they
are fastened or not.
MR COWARD
from common experience if you tie your left shoe up one
way, you tend to tie your right shoe up the same way,
don't you?
HELEN DAVEY
I would think so, yes.
MR COWARD
does what you found with these shoes or this particular
shoe fit in with the shoe being taken off without the
laces being undone?
HELEN DAVEY
it does, yes.
MR COWARD
A hand under the heel and the whole trainer is pulled
off?
HELEN DAVEY
yes.
MR COWARD
you were asked as to whether a miscellaneous list of items
may have been in the black bag together with the items
of clothing of the girls, and you weren't asked to go
into detail through what they were. when you go down the
list of them they are the typical debris, are they not,
that people, if they are neat and tidy, put in waste bins;
lollipop sticks, a Hoola Hoop packet, the drink carton,
an empty packet of Rowntrees fruit gums?
HELEN
DAVEY
yes.
MR COWARD
so it may well be that they were already in the bottom
of the black bag, but equally it may well be that various
people have dropped those into the bin at a time when
there wasn't a bag in there?
HELEN DAVEY
that's possible, yes.
MR COWARD
Dr Davey, you said to my Lord and the Jury that you examined
every single item that was provided to you, where testing
was possible, for evidence of semen and you found none?
HELEN DAVEY
yes.
MR COWARD
how sophisticated are the tests that you are able to do
on garments to detect the presence of semen?
HELEN DAVEY
ordinarily when we get a garment into a laboratory they
are very sensitive; we looked for colour reaction, chemical
reaction, as I have described, but then it has to be confirmed
by examining for the presence of spermatozoa or other
component of semen.
MR COWARD
as we know spermatozoa are minute and individual are they
not?
HELEN DAVEY
they are, yes.
MR COWARD
you are looking with a powerful microscope no doubt in
your laboratory for signs of such? It is possible for
you on occasions to see certain spermatozoa which leads
you to that - that is semen?
HELEN DAVEY
it is, I was wanting to clarify what I had actually done
in this case.
MR COWARD
please?
HELEN DAVEY
in the case I screened for a soluble chemical present
in spermatozoa. I had not found any reaction typical but
I found various colour reactions other than positive and
I think that's largely because of the accelerants and
(inaudible) chemicals and biological activity going on
on the cloths. So I think not getting a positive result
could be because of the condition of the cloths rather
than there being no semen there - or again it could be
because there is indeed no semen there. I then targeted
the crotch area of both pairs of knickers for further
semen examination, and what I did to do that I cut out
the crotch area, washed that material, spun it down and
looked for spermatozoa and none were found.
MR COWARD
you are obviously experienced, a scientist over many years.
Is this a test you have done on hundreds and thousands
of other garments?
HELEN DAVEY
I would say hundreds yes.
MR COWARD
when you cut out the crutch area of a pair of pants, and
do to it what you have indicated to the Jury, you do,
on a number of those occasions, do you find clear and
positive evidence of semen being present?
HELEN
DAVEY
yes.
MR COWARD
how is it shown?
HELEN DAVEY
sometimes there is visible staining, not always. Usually
with localised area of semen by using chemical screening
test but, as I have said, if the garment has been wet
that's not always successful.
MR COWARD
let me just stop you there for a moment, you have a complete
pair of pants. You do one test which says to you concentrate
on this area, this area may have some semen,?
HELEN DAVEY
yes.
MR COWARD
and you then having concentrated on that area carry out
further tests?
HELEN DAVEY
yes.
MR COWARD
if the tests are successful, what do you see?
HELEN DAVEY
I look down a microscope and on the microscopic slide
I can see small sperm heads because the round end of the
sperm they in a semen sample would have tails on but it
is rare to see tails (inaudible).
MR
COWARD
in this case you found none?
HELEN DAVEY
none were found.
MR COWARD
one final question on this topic in respect of each pair
of briefs, was there any evidence of fire damage to those
particular garments?
HELEN DAVEY
there is none in the fabric burnt away but there is soot
marks and black marks on them.
MR COWARD
but soot marks and black marks on them would not in themselves
take away evidence of semen if it was there?
HELEN DAVEY
I would expect to see sperm heads on microscopic examination
if I looked in the right area. If semen had been deposited
there I would expected to see the heads.
MR
COWARD
all you would have had then under your microscope is the
sperm heads plus tiny particles of soot, the soot wouldn't
get rid of the sperm heads, would it?
HELEN
DAVEY
no.
MR COWARD
thank you very much.
re-examined by
MR LATHAM.
MR LATHAM
you have been asked a number of questions about the presence
or absence of semen. you have described all the garments
smelt strongly of some sort of accelerant?
HELEN
DAVEY
yes.
MR LATHAM
and they were all wet or damp?
HELEN
DAVEY
Yes.
MR LATHAM
if a garment such as a pair of knickers has been in water
for any time just not been washed, but literally sitting
in water, what effect, if any, can that have on semen
that may have been there when the garment was dry in the
first place?
HELEN DAVEY
I wouldn't necessarily expect to get the colour reaction
in the initial screening process so I wouldn't get purple
area to identify where semen would be.
MR
LATHAM
once you put the garment, or part of the garment, under
the microscope if I can put it that way even if the garment
has been wet what would you expect?
HELEN
DAVEY
if there has been a large number of spermatozoa there
I would still expect to find some.
MR
LATHAM
thank you very much.
{the witness withdrew}.
MR LATHAM
my Lord, we have number of statements dealing with the
nature of the Manchester United tops. I need only read
one or part of one, but if my learned friends want me
- it is page 5080, my Lord. it is the statement of Catrina
Jane Evans "I'm employed by Umbro International Limited
and work at the Head Office situated in Cheadle Manchester.
I work as a supplier which involves monitoring of production
of all cloths manufactured for Umbro world-wide. Since
January 1992, Umbro had the contract from Manchester United
Football Club to produce the playing kits.
The style of kits was changed every two years and the
shade of red varied as did the sponsorship logo. In spring
1999 we started to design Manchester United the home kit
for the season commencing - typographical error it should
be August 2000, my Lord. the shirts were designed fabric
developed by Umbro in conjunction with (inaudible) Cloverbrook
Limited in Burnley.
Fabric used was manufactured by Cloverbrook Limited, the
fabric is called sport wool and consists of 70 per cent
polyester and 30 per cent Merino wool. The fabric was
produced and dyed in Burnley and then shipped up to (inaudible)
- effectively for, manufacture, my Lord. The production
commenced in January 2000, ready for distribution and
sales in August 2000. my Lord, over the page the shirts
were made mainly out of sport wool but the side panels
in all the shirts were 100 per cent polyester.
The previous season shirts were manufactured out of 100
per cent polyester. However this was a different type
of polyester and died in a brighter shade of red than
sport wool shirts and were all manufactured with Vodafone
embossed on the front and they made 8 different styles
of shirt out of the sport wool, but my Lord we are of
course only concerned with red shirts, not any other colour.
My Lord, in total the total number of red Manchester United
home shirts was 1, 267,431. These shirts were distributed
world-wide but in the UK, one million were distributed."
there are other statements if my learned friend wants
me to read anything else I can do that. my Lord would
that be a suitable moment for a break.
MR
JUSTICE MOSES
yes. just before 5 past 12.
(short adjournment}.
.
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