| Flowers in Gods Garden - Holly Wells
and Jessica Chapman - Documents |
24/11/03 - Soham Trial Transcript
Monday, 24 November 2003
SKY News
Richard Latham is the chief prosecutor; his colleague
on the prosecution team is Karim Khalil QC. Stephen Coward
QC is Ian Huntley's defence barrrister. Michael Hubbard
QC is Maxine Carr's defence lawyer. Mr Justice Moses is
the judge. Other witnesses and lawyers are introduced
as they appear.
Page 01 02
03
MR LATHAM
my Lord, I will deal with the fingerprint, if I may, on
the bin liner. This is largely the subject of admission,
my Lord. A statement of Janice Ellis, a senior fingerprint
laboratory technician.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
what is her subject matter?
MR LATHAM
on the fingerprints. my Lord, it will be the subject matter
of admission but the senior fingerprint laboratory technician,
Janice Ellis, examined the bin liner, the complete bin
liner that we were looking at earlier this morning, and
found upon it a number of fingerprints which Thomas Downs
(page 5087 for that) was later able to compare with the
known prints of Ian Huntley, and he found several prints.
If it becomes relevant as to which is which they can be
dealt with by way of an admission.
MR
JUSTICE MOSES
yes.
MR LATHAM
the prints included a right middle fingerprint, a left
thumb, right middle finger, right ring finger, right middle
finger and two right palms and a left forefinger, and
they were all found on the bin liner. My Lord, the expert
produced a chart from which the graphic was produced that
I played in opening, and I ought to play it now so that
it is formal evidence. as my Lord knows it only takes
two or three minutes, and the animation we'll run through
now. My Lord, that's the still of one side of the bin
liner, the inside. and that, the still of the outside.
The animation inside is starting now. (Animation video
played) My Lord, the animation of the outside of the bin
will be played. (Further animation video played) My Lord
back to file 4, I will call SUSAN BLACKMORE, 4048.
MR LATHAM
start please by telling us your full name?
SUSAN
BLACKMORE
SUSAN BLACKMORE.
MR LATHAM
and your occupation?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
scenes of Crime Officer.
MR LATHAM
employed by the Cambridgeshire Constabulary, I think?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
That's correct.
MR LATHAM
I think you became involved in this investigation on the
morning of 17th August, last year, did you not?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
I did, yes.
MR LATHAM
you were asked to go to Soham Village College and indeed
to concentrate in the first instance on number 5 College
Close?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
that's correct.
MR LATHAM
if you have a witness statement with you that you made,
dated 17th October - my Lord, my learned friend has indicated
I may take the witness to several of the entries in her
witness statements - I'm not going to go through the entire
detail. I think you took a number of photographs both
inside and outside the building, did you not?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
yes, I did.
MR LATHAM
we have used some of those already, I need not trouble
you with them at this stage. one of the first things you
recovered was pieces of blue carpet just inside he front
door, I think SLB 7, did you not?
SUSAN
BLACKMORE
yes, I did.
MR LATHAM
later on you seized a pair of blue Nike cross training
training shoes, SLB 25?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
can I refer to my notes.
MR LATHAM
yes, can you just tell us where you found those, please?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
the Nike cross training shoes were in the room that I
described as the right hand side ground floor room.
MR LATHAM
the first little room off the hall as you went- after
you enter the building?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
yes.
MR LATHAM
these are the shoes that you seized there?
SUSAN
BLACKMORE
yes.
MR LATHAM
I think you seized four yellow dusters, SLB 38, did you
not?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
yes, I did.
MR LATHAM
where were they found?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
they were in the cupboard under the sink in the kitchen.
MR LATHAM
in the kitchen?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
yes.
MR LATHAM
it was also in the kitchen that you seized an Olympus
camera, wasn't it, SLB 51?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
that's correct.
MR LATHAM
I have already read that evidence to the Jury in a drawer
immediately to the left of the cooker. my Lord, that was
the camera from which the film was taken which included
the picture of the Fiesta with Carr sitting in the passenger
seat. I think you were then asked to commence a fingerprint
examination of the ground floor of the property, were
you not?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
yes, I was.
MR LATHAM
can you just help the Jury with how that is done, please,
the mechanism by which you do a fingerprint search?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
Yes, there are two types of powder we use.
MR
LATHAM
keep your voice up?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
sorry. There are two types of powder that can be used
for blocks of paintwork, the sort of things we were looking
at, applied with a very short brush and enhances any detail
that may not be seen with the naked eye.
MR
LATHAM
a fingerprint examination of a house, what are ou dusting
for prints?
MR JUSTICE MOSES
glossy surfaces?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
Yes, mainly glossy.
MR LATHAM
what would that include in this house?
SUSAN
BLACKMORE
paint work, all the paint work and anything that may give
us a fingerprint.
MR LATHAM
I think in the house you seized various documents relating
to a Ford Fiesta J112 YWR didn't you?
SUSAN
BLACKMORE
yes, did.
MR LATHAM
SLB 65 was a wallet, a Trimco wallet containing various
documentation. SLB 6 the registration document for it?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
that's correct.
MR LATHAM
In the name of Mr Huntley. you were later to inspect that
car held at the laboratory, the Huntingdon laboratory
on 13th September, I think?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
Yes, that's correct.
MR LATHAM
Is that correct?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
yes.
MR LATHAM
who did you do the work with on that day, 13th September,
it may be relevant?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
a Pat Wiltshire and a Peter Ball.
MR
LATHAM
my Lord, we shall be calling Patricia Wiltshire tomorrow
to give her evidence apart from anything else about aspects
of that vehicle examination. I think you were very much
acting on their instructions while looking at the underside
of the car, weren't you?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
that is correct, yes.
MR LATHAM
did they point various things out to you?
SUSAN
BLACKMORE
yes, they did.
MR LATHAM
did you then sieze them?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
that's correct, yes.
MR LATHAM
they are your exhibits; I'm not going to go right the
way through them, but ... were there various soil and
vegetation samples found adhering to the underside of
the car?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
yes, they were under particularly,from under the front
nearside suspension arm? SLB 72.
MR
LATHAM
Did you also look inside the car and seize something in
the footwells in the front, 86 and 87?
SUSAN
BLACKMORE
yes, I did, the mats in both footwells.
MR
LATHAM
and the carpet from the boot, SLB 88?
SUSAN
BLACKMORE
yes, that's correct.
MR LATHAM
did you do a fingerprint examination of the car?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
yes, later, yes.
MR LATHAM
and then three of the four road wheels were removed on
your instructions and seized by you, weren't they?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
yes, they were.
MR LATHAM
I think in relation to both the fingerprint examination
of the car and the fingerprint examination of the house,
you were looking for any evidence that either or both
of the girls could be placed in the car or in the house
virtue of their fingerprints having been found in either
place?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
that's correct.
MR LATHAM
was that the reason for doing the fingerprint examinations?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
it was, yes.
MR LATHAM
can I deal with it in a global way? As far as you are
aware, were any fingerprints of either Holly or Jessica
found either in the house or in the motor car?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
I haven't been informed of that at all.
MR
LATHAM
you haven't been informed?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
no, I haven't.
MR LATHAM
my Lord, I understand there is no dispute that no fingerprints
were found either in the car or in the house to be linked
to Holly or Jessica. my Lord, that is subject to one item
to which I will return in a moment. I think you were also
present when one of your colleagues seized a black handled
pair of scissors from the boot of the car, DP 8, weren't
you?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
I was not present when they were actually seized; they
were handed to me.
MR LATHAM
they were handed to you?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
yes, they were.
MR LATHAM
by another member of the laboratory staff, Donna Park?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
yes.
MR LATHAM
dealing with fingerprints, I think you did find prints
on - I'm sorry it wasn't you. You didn't inspect the box
of chocolates, did you?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
I seized an empty box of chocolates, yes.
MR
LATHAM
did you do the aluminium powder dusting of that box?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
no, that would have been submitted for chemical treating
at head quarters. That is one exception, my Lord, the
box of chocolates and I will come to that as a separate
item.
MR LATHAM
in all you said well over 100 items in the course of your
work and they would all have your initials SLB against
the items?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
yes.
MR LATHAM
thank you. will you wait there, please
(Cross-examined
by MR COWARD).
MR COWARD
Mrs Blackmore I think you are the first scenes of crimes
officer we had in the case, can you explain in essence
your job?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
basically to recover evidence from a crime scene.
MR COWARD
on this particular occasion you go to 5 College Close,
I think you were with a Mrs Howarth, were you not?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
for the first two days, yes sorry, the second.
MR COWARD
Mrs Howarth is a forensic scientist?
SUSAN
BLACKMORE
she is.
MR COWARD
did the two of you work together to collect what samples
seemed important?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
Yes , I worked mainly under instruction from Mrs Howarth.
MR COWARD
it was your job to carefully take samples so there would
be no contamination, so the scientists at a later occasion
could examine what you collected to see if what is of
any significance?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
that's correct.
MR COWARD
when you went with Mrs Howarth to number 5 College Close,
amongst the items that were of interest to you for obvious
reasons, were any signs of blood staining in and around
the house?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
correct.
MR COWARD
if you have a copy of your statement to hand?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
I don't.
MR COWARD
it would help if you were given a copy of what we are
looking at. same document. it begins 4048. if you turn
to 4049, just above where a top punch hole would be, did
Mrs Howarth note that there were a number of apparent
blood stains on the front doorstep and asked you to photograph
them?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
that's correct, she did.
MR COWARD
having taken the photograph with the apparent blood stains
on the doorstep, you then take a sample of them for Mrs
Howarth later to analyse?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
Yes, a representative sample not necessarily - .
MR JUSTICE MOSES
sorry I can't hear?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
sorry.
MR COWARD
at the bottom of that page did the two of you come across
an apparent blood splatter 30 centimeters above the floor
in an under stairs cupboard in the hallway?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
it was on the door of the under stairs cupboard in the
hallway.
MR COWARD
was there in fact more to it, another blood splatter again
in the under stairs cupboard in the hallway?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
on the outside of the door of the stairs a cupboard in
the hallway.
MR COWARD
the bottom of the page the first one, an apparent blood
smear on the skirting board just under the right hand
edge of the under stairs cupboard in the hallway?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
that's correct, yes.
MR COWARD
another apparent blood splatter 26 centimeters up from
the floor, the side panel of the understairs cupboard
in the hallway?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
that's correct.
MR COWARD
and number 6, another splatter in a similar position,
again in the understairs cupboard in the doorway?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
they weren't in the cupboard they were on the outside.
MR COWARD
on the outside. Number 7, an apparent blood spot on the
skirting board in the hallway, correct ?
SUSAN
BLACKMORE
yes.
MR COWARD
8, further apparent blood spots on the skirting board
in the hallway?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
that's correct.
MR COWARD
then half-way down the page I think Mr Price noticed a
further apparent area of staining on the bottom of the
kitchen door reveal?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
that's correct.
MR COWARD
was that photographed and samples taken?
SUSAN
BLACKMORE
Yes, it was.
MR COWARD
number 9. turn over to 4051, would you? near the top,
did Mrs Howarth tell you she thought she had located a
further blood splatter at the downstairs WC on the left-hand
wall?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
yes, she did.
MR COWARD
was that 70 and a half centimeters above the floor? that's
the figure in your witness statement - are you just checking;
it is right?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
I am, yes. yes, I believe that's correct.
MR
COWARD
so that's round about two feet above the floor level.
number 11, Mrs Howarth pointed out some further apparent
blood staining which you photographed and took samples
of on the staircase, second tread down, left-hand side
on the paint work. is that correct?
SUSAN
BLACKMORE
that's correct.
MR COWARD
12, the door to the main bedroom? correct?
SUSAN
BLACKMORE
that's correct.
MR COWARD
further swab taken of apparent blood on the door frame
on the right hand side the main bedroom?
SUSAN
BLACKMORE
that's correct.
MR COWARD
14, swab of apparent blood on the wall outside the main
bedroom on the left-hand side?
SUSAN
BLACKMORE
that's correct.
MR COWARD
I think that was the entirety of the blood swabs taken
inside the house?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
yes.
MR COWARD
thank you very much.
(Re-examined MR
LATHAM).
MR LATHAM
are you aware of the results of those swabs, the blood
staining?
SUSAN BLACKMORE
no, I'm not.
MR LATHAM
I have no re-examination
{the witness
withdrew}.
MR LATHAM
my Lord, while dealing with fingerprints, I will read
the last paragraph of a six page statement made by Peter
Thomas Downs, senior fingerprint officer, page 5088 G.
to 5088 L. "of the finger marks found on the box
of Cadburys chocolates and the chocolates are LV 47. They
were seized at the house by the witness who has just left
the witness box. One has been identified to fingerprints
in the name of Ian Huntley. Three have been identified
to fingerprints of the name Maxine Carr and three have
been identified to finger marks found on item presumed
to be habitually touched by either Holly Wells or Jessica
Chapman. ROGER BLACKMORE , please.
(ROGER
BLACKMORE, sworn)
Examined by MR COWARD.
MR COWARD
full name, please, Mr Blackmore?
ROGER
BLACKMORE
Roger Charles Blackmore.
MR COWARD
Your occupation?
ROGER BLACKMORE
forensic scientist employed by the Forensic Science Service.
MR COWARD
Your qualifications?
ROGER BLACKMORE
bachelor of science, chartered chemist, member of the
Royal Society of Chemistry.
MR COWARD
I think you were working as a forensic scientist since
1980 have you not?
ROGER BLACKMORE
that's correct, yes.
MR COWARD
you went to Soham Village College on the 17th August initially
to look at the hangar area and the yellow refuse bin found
there , is that right?
ROGER BLACKMORE
yes I did.
MR COWARD
We have heard from your colleague Dr Devi who was later
to examine the items found in the bin, I think the items
in the bin had been damaged by fire of some sort?
ROGER BLACKMORE
yes.
(Cross-examined by MR LATHAM)
MR LATHAM
can I start by asking you to describe so far as it is
relevant the hangar for the purposes of considering fire?
ROGER BLACKMORE
the hangar itself was a large pre- fabricated metal building,
steel frame in construction with a brick lower section
and metal clad at the walls internally, the building was
divided into two. One part was being used as a wood working
area and the second part was used as a store for items
of sports equipment.
MR LATHAM
I think it was in the sports area the refuse bin was seized
and taken to the laboratory. Iit was in, if I can put
it this way, a group of similar bins?
ROGER
BLACKMORE
Yes, it was.
MR LATHAM
did you see it - it was still at the scene before it was
removed?
ROGER BLACKMORE
yes.
MR LATHAM
did you go back, first of all, let me deal with in general
terms the bin seized. Can you help us at all in any way
about it in relation to any fire you might be nsidering?
ROGER BLACKMORE
yes, the bin itself was a yellow plastic bin with a metal
liner. the contents of the bin had clearly been burnt
inside the bin. so----
MR LATHAM
could you smell anything when you?
ROGER
BLACKMORE
yes, there was a sort of accelerant smell, an accelerant
being a flammable liquid which might be used to accelerate
the spread of a fire.
MR LATHAM
Had the heat of the fire damaged the yellow outer skin,
the plastic skin of the bin or not?
ROGER
BLACKMORE
there was no significant damage to the yellow plastic
skin.
MR LATHAM
I think on the 23rd August you went back to consider the
hangar in the light of the possibility that there had
been a fire in the bin in the hangar as opposed to outside,
did you not?
ROGER BLACKMORE
I did, I tried to ascertain whether or not the bin was
inside the hangar when the clothing was burnt.
MR LATHAM
yes. now, did you have to consider the nature of the fire
which had taken place?
ROGER BLACKMORE
not in great detail. primarily I was concerned with trying
to find any evidence that there had been a fire.
MR LATHAM
can we start with the damage you saw and what it was that
had ended up either being wholly or partially burned in
the bin?
ROGER BLACKMORE
yes, it was items of clothing, which obviously during
the course of their being burned would have produced a
quantity of smoke.
MR LATHAM
what about a bin liner, a black bin liner?
ROGER
BLACKMORE
there were two bin liners in the bin. There was an intact
bin liner lying across the top of the contents of the
bin - but the clothing area, the clothing items themselves,
were contained in the remnants of a second black bin bag.
MR LATHAM
so if we take, put on one side the intact bin liner, the
bag not being fire damaged----
ROGER
BLACKMORE
correct.
MR LATHAM
----but the remnants of another one. what sort of fire
or what would have been the product of the sort of fire
that you could ascertain must have taken place to cause
the damage that you saw in the bin to the clothing and
to the bin liner?
ROGER BLACKMORE
there must have been a flaming fire - so with a naked
flame, the clothing would have burnt with the flame and
produced a quantity of smoke.
MR LATHAM
what about the bin liner?
ROGER BLACKMORE
the bin liner being plastic would have been partly consumed
by the fire - other remaining parts would have shrivelled
up.
MR LATHAM
did you examine the under side of the roof in the hangar?
ROGER BLACKMORE
I did , I tried to see whether any smoke given off by
the clothing had been deposited on the under side of the
roof. Unfortunately I could find no evidence of any smoke.
MR LATHAM
did you find some cobwebs?
ROGER BLACKMORE
I did, having looked at the under side of the roof and
given the nature of the clothing that had been burnt,
I thought it was possible that if it had been burnt in
the hangar, there would have been insufficient smoke to
have reached the roof so I looked at a lower level, which
in this case was the fluorescent light tubes which were
present in there. They were suspended on chains from the
roof.
MR LATHAM
if you look at the photograph, please. are those the lights
to which you are referring?
ROGER BLACKMORE
they are indeed yes.
MR LATHAM
you can see where some of the bins are, the remaining
bins, quite close to the entry door?
ROGER
BLACKMORE
that's correct, yes.
MR LATHAM
Which in the area above those bins, there are some of
the lights you are describing?
ROGER
BLACKMORE
yes, there are.
MR LATHAM
so what did you do in relation to those lights?
ROGER BLACKMORE
I tried to ascertain whether there was any evidence of
smoke deposits on the lights themselves. when looking
at the lights in detail I found some small traces of cobwebs
around the lower part of the chain where they joined to
the light units.
MR LATHAM
what did you find there?
ROGER BLACKMORE
there was dark discolouration of the cobwebs over on the
light fitting nearest the bin. as you moved further from
this location looking at right, different light fittings,
the discolouration on the cobwebs became lighter so suggesting
that the areas over the bin was the darkest discolouration
of the cob web.
MR LATHAM
now was it possible to recover the cobwebs to confirm
whether or not the discolouration you have been describing
was the result of smoke?
ROGER BLACKMORE
no there was only very few strands of the cobweb I and
it wasn't possible to recover them to determine whether
or not the discolouration was smoke.
MR
LATHAM
can we turn to the items in the bin?
HELEN
DAVEY
has described them this morning in detail but, again,
can I concentrate so far as you are concerned on the fire
damage and in particular the accelerant? did examine that
in order to try and determine what it was, the accelerant?
ROGER BLACKMORE
yes did, the first impression was it might have been petrol
or paraffin but having sampled materials associated with
the clothing the presence of petrol was confirmed on the
items.
MR LATHAM
I think you were later handed a red petrol can RCB 1 which
had been taken from Mr Huntley's car, from the boot of
his car?
ROGER BLACKMORE
yes, I was.
MR LATHAM
was there anything in it?
ROGER BLACKMORE
there was petrol residues in it.
MR
LATHAM
were you later provided with exhibits and specimen control
samples taken from the deposition site where the bodies
were found?
ROGER BLACKMORE
yes, I was.
MR LATHAM
can you help what was discovered in relation to the fire?
ROGER BLACKMORE
I discovered three items from deposition site two hair
samples and a soil sample and residue of petrol were detected
on all of them.
MR LATHAM
Apart from the clothing having an accelerant, you later
discovered was petrol on them, were they dry or wet or
damp?
ROGER BLACKMORE
the clothing items were wet.
MR LATHAM
have you considered the two alternatives in relation to
fire and the clothing, given the clothing was found wet?
ROGER BLACKMORE
yes, I considered two possibilities. Firstly that the
clothing items were wet and petrol was poured on before
being ignited in an attempt to burn the clothing. Or secondly
that petrol had been poured on to the clothing and the
clothing ignited before being extinguished with water.
MR LATHAM
yes?
ROGER BLACKMORE
from my examination I'm unable to say which of those two
alternatives applies.
MR LATHAM
I think that during the course of the searches of various
locations at the school site, including 5 College Close,
you were provided with a number of different black plastic
bin liners, weren't you, seized from number 5 College
Close, from the hangar particularly and asked to compare
those with the intact bin liner which was found in the
bin where the fire had been?
ROGER BLACKMORE
yes, I was.
MR LATHAM
I think you were able to exclude the bags recovered from
number 5 as being from the same batch as those found inside
the hangar?
ROGER BLACKMORE
that's correct, yes.
MR LATHAM
did you find some in the hangar which matched the bin
bag which was found in the bin ?
ROGER
BLACKMORE
yes, I did.
MR LATHAM
I think another area of interest as far as you were concerned
were the tyres fitted to the Ford Fiesta, an entirely
different topic. it is in a later witness statement you
made, 18th October, at page 4, if you are working from
your witness statement?
ROGER BLACKMORE
yes, I examined the Ford Fiesta and found it was fitted
with four Sava Effecta brand tyres of size 165/6 5 R 13.
MR LATHAM
what was their general appearance?
ROGER
BLACKMORE
the general appearance was that they were almost new.
MR LATHAM
indeed, all Members of the Jury may be familiar with,
as it were, brand new tyres which still have some moulding
marks on them from coming out of the mould at manufacture.
Did you find evidence of that sort?
ROGER
BLACKMORE
yes, there were mould flashing on the side walls of the
tyre which is quite common, but also on the rear tyres
there was the presence or remains of such flashing on
the actual tread areas and that tends to be lost fairly
quickly as the tyres become worn.
MR
LATHAM
given the general condition of those tyres are you able
to say how far they had been, not with precision, but
give an indication how far they had been either on that
car or indeed any car?
ROGER BLACKMORE
it is difficult to estimate exactly, but it is unlikely
to be more than a few hundred miles.
MR
LATHAM
I think you were provided with a photograph of the car
taken on a known date, indeed in the first week after
the girls disappearance. You see on the left-hand side
an extract of an enlargement of part of what was originally
a colour photograph, correct?
ROGER
BLACKMORE
yes .
MR LATHAM
I think you were shown that, weren't you?
ROGER
BLACKMORE
yes.
MR LATHAM
I think you had the original exhibits, including the tyre,
which was in fact fitted to the rear off-side wheel of
the car when the car was seized?
ROGER
BLACKMORE
yes, I was.
MR LATHAM
and I think that is the tyre we see on the right hand
side in this exhibit , is it not?
ROGER
BLACKMORE
yes.
MR LATHAM
what were you trying to do as best you could Mr Blackmore?
ROGER BLACKMORE
as best I could I was trying to ascertain the make of
tyre fitted to the Fiesta at the time of that photograph.
MR LATHAM
are you able to be precise about it?
ROGER
BLACKMORE
I am able to be precise about it. its my opinion as far
as could be ascertained that the tyre was similar to a
Sava Effecta but I'm unable to say whether the tyre in
the photograph was the actual tyre on the car at the time
of that photograph.
MR LATHAM
looking at the tread pattern and so on was there anything
to distinguish the tyre we have on the right hand side
with the tyre -?
ROGER BLACKMORE
no they both appeared to be Sava Effecta tyres.
MR LATHAM
I think we can see in that photograph there are a number
of areas which are surrounded or marked by a red ink,
are there ?
ROGER BLACKMORE
yes, there are.
MR LATHAM
you did a number of comparisons of enlargement of rough
sections of the tyre you had in the laboratory and the
section of the photograph on the left-hand side?
ROGER BLACKMORE
yes I did.
MR LATHAM
was there anything to suggest it wasn't the same tyre
or type of tyre the analysis that you did?
ROGER
BLACKMORE
no.
MR LATHAM
may I turn to a pair of boots DMX 5 and DMX 6. This was
a pair of boots seized from Mr Huntley at the time of
his arrest. Did you examine those boots to see whether
you could find any damage on them?
ROGER
BLACKMORE
yes, I did.
MR LATHAM
18th October, a 7 page statement, it is page 3?
ROGER BLACKMORE
yes, I have found no significant damage to those boots.
MR LATHAM
can I ask you about something on DMX 6 please, page 5
of your witness statement?
ROGER BLACKMORE
I don't have this specific reference in this particular
statement.
MR LATHAM
I may be looking at the wrong one. Do you have the statement
dated 18th October, the bottom of page 3 deals with DMX
6?
MR COWARD
I am more than happy for the witness to have 40731, which
I think cover it?
ROGER BLACKMORE
I don't believe I have that correct statement; I have
two statements for that date.
MR LATHAM
it is W which I am asking for?
ROGER
BLACKMORE
the bottom of page 5.
MR LATHAM
the bottom of page 3, the top of 5. you are being handed
the two pages now (same handed). 4073 W is the first page?
ROGER BLACKMORE
this version has been retyped and the page numbering is
different.
MR LATHAM
right, I quite understand. can you help with DMX 6 please,
which we see in the photograph?
ROGER
BLACKMORE
Certainly, there is a small burn to the outer aspect of
the left ankle area.
MR LATHAM
and at letter Y, at the top of the page, I think you go
on to consider that burn mark, the localised burn mark,
in a little more detail, don't you?
ROGER
BLACKMORE
yes. the cause of the localised burn on the right boot
DMX 6 not clear. In my opinion a burn in this position
is unlikely to have been produced by smoking material,
but there was no other damage on the boot that might have
indicated it had been in close proximity to a tyre. LATHAM
when you say "unlikely to have been produced by smoking
material" you are referring to things associated
with cigarettes?
ROGER BLACKMORE
Yes, often smokers will have very small burns on their
clothing as a result of smoking, ash falling on to it.
MR LATHAM
you didn't think it likely the burn mark you found was
the result of that type of thing?
ROGER
BLACKMORE
that's correct.
MR LATHAM
as the boots are here, could you have both?
MR JUSTICE MOSES
give him DMX 6.
MR LATHAM
can you help with the general condition, please? One of
them will do, DMX 6, the general condition of that boot?
ROGER BLACKMORE
the boot itself is in reasonably good general condition,
the underside is not particularly worn. MR
MR
LATHAM
would you wait there, please, Mr Blackmore?
Cross-examined by MR COWARD.
MR COWARD
unfortunately the photograph we have is of the inner aspect
of the boot?
ROGER BLACKMORE
yes.
MR COWARD
the mark you found was on the outer aspect?
ROGER BLACKMORE
yes.
MR COWARD
could you - we can generally see where it is on the other
side of the court - you point to where this mark is?
ROGER BLACKMORE
it is just - my fingers are just above it.
MR
COWARD
thank you very much. I wonder, having pointed that out,
my Lord, if the Jury could have an opportunity of seeing
the boot?
MR JUSTICE MOSES
you would like them to do that now?
MR
COWARD
the Crown seems to attach significance to it.
MR COWARD
Mr Blackmore should it emerge those boots only came into
the possession of the defendant from his father an hour
before his arrest, if that is right they obviously have
no relevant to this case?
ROGER BLACKMORE
absolutely.
MR COWARD
on 23rd August you go to the hangar to try to ascertain
if the bin was in the hangar when the clothes inside it
were set fire?
ROGER BLACKMORE
yes.
MR COWARD
there was clear evidence that some form of accelerant
likely to be petrol was used and you had a look at the
fluorescent lights and you found traces of cobwebs and
as you put it there was a darker discolouration under
the fluorescent light at one place than there was further
away?
ROGER BLACKMORE
yes.
MR COWARD
you say they were only very small strands of cob web and
it was not possible to recover them?
ROGER
BLACKMORE
yes.
MR COWARD
why?
ROGER BLACKMORE
the mere recovery of them is likely to have destroyed
them anyway and at the time I did not know of any means
whereby I could prove the presence of smoke on them even
if they had been recovered.
MR COWARD
forgive me we have all had the experience, every single
one of us of walking through cobwebs haven't we?
ROGER BLACKMORE
yes.
MR COWARD
and the cobwebs on occasions stick on our clothes, don't
they?
ROGER BLACKMORE
yes, they do.
MR COWARD
Are you saying to the Members of the Jury as a forensic
scientist you knew of no way to carefully remove those
cobwebs from the fluorescent lights, for them to be examined
by someone expert enough to see whether they showed areas
of discolouration?
ROGER BLACKMORE
they could have been recovered by a swab or or similar
material, but there was very little there to analyse.
At the time of my examination I was unaware of any means
whereby I could identify the presence of smoke and such
small extract on something which was probably chemically
similar to the smoke itself.
MR COWARD
Mr Blackmore forgive me this is a two stage process stage
one is recovering possible evidence, isn't it?
ROGER BLACKMORE
yes.
MR COWARD
stage 2 is finding somewhere in the country or the world
a person sufficiently expert to be able to help one way
or another as to what, if any, deposit there is on cobwebs?
ROGER BLACKMORE
yes.
MR COWARD
and you didn't collect them?
ROGER BLACKMORE
I didn't collect them, no. I felt if it became necessary
at a later date they could be collected but did not collect
them on that day, I made that decision.
MR
COWARD
the case for my client, and I put it to you so you can
consider, is that having cut off the clothes of the girls
at the deposition site, he brought them back to Soham,
put them inside one of the bins that was, as we have seen
on the photograph, outside the hangar, set fire to the
contents and then replaced the bin inside the hangar.
That is at least a possibility, isn't it?
ROGER
BLACKMORE
it is, yes.
MR COWARD
thank you. one final matter, Mr Blackmore. when speaking
about smoke deposits on the under side of the roof, the
expression you used was "Unfortunately I could find
no evidence of smoke deposits on the under side of the
roof"?
ROGER BLACKMORE
that was a slip of the tongue I apologise.
MR
COWARD
because to you as a scientist whether it is fortunate
or unfortunate has nothing to do with anything does it?
ROGER BLACKMORE
no, it does not.
MR COWARD
it is not for you to adopt a position, is it?
ROGER BLACKMORE
no.
MR COWARD
thank you very much.
MR LATHAM
I have no re-examination.
MR JUSTICE
MOSES
thank you very much
{the witness withdrew}.
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