| Flowers in Gods Garden - Holly Wells
and Jessica Chapman - Documents |
26/11/03 - Soham Trial Transcript
Wednesday, 26 November 2003
SKY News
Richard Latham is the chief prosecutor; his colleague on the prosecution team is Karim Khalil QC. Stephen Coward QC is Ian Huntley's defence barrrister. Michael Hubbard QC is Maxine Carr's defence lawyer. Mr Justice Moses is the judge. Other witnesses and lawyers are introduced as they appear.
Page 01 02
03 04
(Paul Walmsley, sworn.)
Examined by MR COWARD.
MR COWARD
can you give us your full name, please?
PAUL WALMSLEY
it is Paul Lee Walmsley.
MR COWARD
Mr Walmsley, last August, 2002, were you employed as a coach driver for Amvale Limited in Grimsby?
PAUL WALMSLEY
I was.
MR COWARD
are you still employed?
PAUL WALMSLEY
I am.
MR COWARD
does your job involve driving coaches on day trips and various excursions?
PAUL WALMSLEY
yes.
MR COWARD
and you also drove coaches in connection with named or known routes from rural villages taking passengers around from Grimsby?
PAUL WALMSLEY
that's correct.
MR COWARD
I want to ask you, please, about Monday, 5th August 2002. We understand from the statement I have just read that you were given an allotted route between Keelby and Grimsby that day?
PAUL WALMSLEY
that's correct.
MR COWARD
so far as you are concerned, documents then have to be completed in respect of those journeys that you undertake?
PAUL WALMSLEY
yes.
MR COWARD
did you have a hand in completing any of the documentation in due course?
PAUL WALMSLEY
can you repeat that.
MR COWARD
did you complete or partially complete any documentation.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
there is no dispute about any of this.
MR HUBBARD
one small point, my Lord.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
let's get to it.
MR KHALIL
may we have the documents lest he wishes to refer?
MR JUSTICE MOSES
there is no need at the moment.
MR KHALIL
(inaudible) on Monday 5th August were you involved in driving your coach between Keelby and Grimsby or vice versa?
PAUL WALMSLEY
I was, yes.
MR KHALIL
can you remember which way you were driving please?
PAUL WALMSLEY
travelling from Keelby to Grimsby.
MR KHALIL
what time did you arrive in Grimsby?
PAUL WALMSLEY
round about 2.30.
MR KHALIL
did you pick up any passengers on that route?
PAUL WALMSLEY
from Keelby to Grimsby.
MR KHALIL
yes, please just one?
PAUL WALMSLEY
just one.
MR KHALIL
we now know that was Maxine Carr you were subsequently to recognise her?
PAUL WALMSLEY
yes.
MR KHALIL
when you picked her up, did you speak with her?
PAUL WALMSLEY
not straight away, no. Just as I was coming out of Keelby yes.
MR KHALIL
was there then conversation with her?
PAUL WALMSLEY
yes, there was.
MR KHALIL
can you tell us how that went please?
PAUL WALMSLEY
it started off me asking Miss Carr if she was local and we just started chatting all the way to town.
MR KHALIL
you asked if she was local, what did she say?
PAUL WALMSLEY
sorry?
MR KHALIL
what did she say when you asked if she local?
PAUL WALMSLEY
she told me she was originally from Keelby but now she lives in Soham.
MR KHALIL
is Soham a place that rang any bells ?
PAUL WALMSLEY
It doesn't no. .
MR KHALIL
did it then?
PAUL WALMSLEY
no, I had heard something on the radio that morning.
MR KHALIL
Did you make any comment about that?
PAUL WALMSLEY
no, I didn't.
MR KHALIL
was anything said about Soham thereafter?
PAUL WALMSLEY
she just told me a bit of the area round it - sorry, I can't remember.
MR KHALIL
it's all right. we know now that Holly and Jessica Wells were two children who had gone missing?
PAUL WALMSLEY
yes.
MR KHALIL
that we knew by 5th August?
PAUL WALMSLEY
yes.
MR KHALIL
did you know?
PAUL WALMSLEY
I heard on the radio.
MR KHALIL
Was there any talk about them at all?
PAUL WALMSLEY
I was told she actually previously worked at the school and that her boyfriend was a worker at the school. I recall no conversation of what he did.
MR KHALIL
did she say where she was going?
PAUL WALMSLEY
just into town to get one or two things.
MR KHALIL
did she - she had already told you she lived in Soham?
PAUL WALMSLEY
yes.
MR KHALIL
was there anything about returning ever to Soham?
PAUL WALMSLEY
just that she was going back to help with inquiries.
MR KHALIL
help us as best you can with how it was said to you that she was going back to help with inquiries, what did she say about that?
PAUL WALMSLEY
nothing really.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
sorry, I didn't hear?
PAUL WALMSLEY
nothing really.
MR KHALIL
did she say why she was going back?
PAUL WALMSLEY
just to help with inquiries, that was all that was said.
MR KHALIL
did she refer to the girls at all?
PAUL WALMSLEY
I do believe so, yes.
MR KHALIL
do you recall whether any names were used?
PAUL WALMSLEY
I think there was, yes, yes, I'm not 100 per cent.
MR KHALIL
what was her manner as you were conversing with her?
PAUL WALMSLEY
sorry.
MR KHALIL
what was her manner?
PAUL WALMSLEY
just normal. normal.
MR KHALIL
did she travel all the way to the end of your journey?
PAUL WALMSLEY
No, I was supposed to go from, you have a bus station in Brighouse, in the middle of Grimsby and the main bus station, I actually dropped her off in Brighouse again, had to pull into there to save my going all the way into town to the bus station to start the next bus journey at 4.45, she asked me to drop her off in Brig bus station which is our bus station.
MR KHALIL
you drop her off?
PAUL WALMSLEY
yes.
MR KHALIL
did you see her again that day?
PAUL WALMSLEY
yes, I do believe she was on the return jury at 5 past 5.
MR KHALIL
the return journey to and from where?
PAUL WALMSLEY
to Brig Gate bus station, back to Keelby.
MR KHALIL
was she alone or were other people on the bus?
PAUL WALMSLEY
at that time of the evening, its full of children, near enough a full bus, I think.
MR KHALIL
did you speak to her on that journey?
PAUL WALMSLEY
I didn't, no.
MR KHALIL
thank you, I have no other questions.
(Cross-examined by MR HUBBARD)
MR HUBBARD
Mr Walmsley, the conversation you have told us about took place on the journey?
PAUL WALMSLEY
yes.
MR HUBBARD
from Keelby to Grimsby?
PAUL WALMSLEY
Yes, that's correct.
MR HUBBARD
no doubt at all about that?
PAUL WALMSLEY
sorry.
MR HUBBARD
no doubt about that?
PAUL WALMSLEY
no.
MR HUBBARD
Keelby to Grimsby?
PAUL WALMSLEY
yes.
MR HUBBARD
and she told you, did she not, that she was visiting relatives in Keelby?
PAUL WALMSLEY
yes, she didn't mention any names, just relatives.
MR HUBBARD
she said she was mentioning them in Keelby?
PAUL WALMSLEY
Sorry.
MR HUBBARD
She said she was mentioning relatives, visiting relatives in Keelby?
PAUL WALMSLEY
yes, yes.
MR HUBBARD
thank you. in fact you had quite a general chat didn't you?
PAUL WALMSLEY
yes.
MR HUBBARD
you have a girl, I think a daughter?
PAUL WALMSLEY
I do.
MR HUBBARD
and you even talked about your football club, Liverpool?
PAUL WALMSLEY
I think so, yes.
MR HUBBARD
she was very friendly?
PAUL WALMSLEY
yes.
MR HUBBARD
didn't seem distressed?
PAUL WALMSLEY
no, not at all.
MR HUBBARD
I have got to suggest to you that you have got the trips the bus journeys the wrong way round. You picked her up, I suggest, in Grimsby and took the her to Keelby?
PAUL WALMSLEY
no, I picked her up in Keelby and took her to Grimsby.
MR HUBBARD
and she returned from Keelby to Grimsby?
PAUL WALMSLEY
no, the other way round.
MR HUBBARD
are you sure about that?
PAUL WALMSLEY
I'm very sure about that.
MR HUBBARD
I tell you why you rang the police up didn't you, about two weeks after this happened?
PAUL WALMSLEY
the following week .
MR HUBBARD
you said you recognised her and ought to give this information on to the police. You think that took place on the Tuesday?
PAUL WALMSLEY
sorry.
MR HUBBARD
when you telephoned the police you told them, didn't you, that this had taken place on a Tuesday?
PAUL WALMSLEY
did say that? I was not sure whether it was the Monday or the Tuesday.
MR HUBBARD
you weren't sure then, and you didn't make a statement about all this until the 11th September, did you?
PAUL WALMSLEY
no, that's when the police came to see me.
MR HUBBARD
and that's the first time you put down in writing what had happened?
PAUL WALMSLEY
yes.
MR HUBBARD
had you not made any notes?
PAUL WALMSLEY
no.
MR KHALIL
I have no other questions, thank you very much.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
thank you very much. I'm very sorry you have been dragged all the way.
{the witness withdrew} .
MR KHALIL
page 7115, please, Deborah Susan Davis is employed as deputy editor of the Evening Standard, Ely in Cambridgeshire, for at least 15 years. "Monday, 5th August, 2002 I was made aware that two ten year old girls Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman were missing from Soham. I then covered the story with my staff photographer, Helen South, for over two weeks. on Thursday, 8th August, 2002, I made a decision to produce a poster of the missing girls.
I obtained clearance from Managing Director Jerry Ealing and we produced the posters and they were delivered to our offices by 12.30 the same day. Helen and I then took the posters to Soham, delivered them by hand. I took them to the houses in the vicinity of Soham Village College and the sports centre. I went to 5 College Close to deliver the poster. I was aware who lived at this address because it was about this time that we, the press, were aware that Ian Huntley was the last person to see the two girls alive.
So there was quite a bit of interest from this quarter. I went up to No 5 College Close and knocked on the door. it was answered by a person I now know to be Maxine Carr. I introduced myself and where I was from. I then said, 'I understand that Ian was the last one to see the girls, could I come in and have a chat with you about that?' she replied, "No, we have had enough of all this now.'
I said, 'I have got some posters appealing for information about the girls.' she didn't reply and seemed to snatch the poster from me. I said 'thank you' and walked up the path. on looking back, I saw that she had pulled the net curtains back and was putting the poster in the window. I viewed a colour print of Ian Huntley sitting in the Ford Fiesta and I can confirm the poster in the window of the house is the one in handed to Maxine Carr."
My Lord, that's the photograph, I can confirm the poster in the window. 060 David Baron, a scenes of crime officer, on Sunday, 18th August, 2002, he attended 5 College Close Soham in Cambridgeshire with a number of other scenes of crime officers and forensic scientists.
I am just going to deal with a few of the exhibits that were seized - although there were very many - under the DJB marking. the foot of page 7061 "DJB 62, two pieces of paper with writing thereon and in a drawer in a display cabinet" - that was seized in fact the following day, on the 19th August. That was a stereo by the sliding doors in the lounge. The Jury have that in the bundle at tab 4. we are only concerned with one of those two pieces of paper. .
MR JUSTICE MOSES
which bundle?
MR KHALIL
The grey bundle. A formal printed document but it is the writing on the reverse which we are concerned with, page 1 of that tab. other items seized included a Manchester United football shirt from a shelf in a walk-in cupboard in the bedroom. I mention that because Mr Lamb referred to eliminating a different type of shirt.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
yes.
MR KHALIL
a series of black bin liners, I mention those because they also were eliminated by those concerned. on 20th August, he reattended and seized DJB 74, a home made card from Holly from a kitchen drawer to the right hand side of the cooker. the Jury have that, it is the next two pages in the same bundle. my Lord, we have the original. it may be if there are questions asked about it, it could be helpful if they were passed now or in due course.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
well, in due course.
MR KHALIL
it is two sided, as it were and we have the two front and back photocopies separately. Over the page, he also seized DJB 83 and 84, left and right Chris Brasher boots in the upstairs bedroom from the left to the left side of the chest of drawers. I mentioned those because Miss Wiltshire was asked about them. DJB 89, and O2 top up mobile phone card from the top of the chest of drawers in the main bedroom. 7064 B on 20th August, one of the colleagues, they examined clothing in the upstairs main bedroom of the property.
Item of clothing were removed from their original position and checked for tears, stretching and blood staining, hairs and any obvious fibres. "following our examination the clothing was folded and left on the double bed in the main bedroom." my Lord, we have seen that on the schedule relating to fibres where it says, "recovered on the bed in the bedroom", and so it is that is explained.
My Lord, then a statement from Mr Float at 70/71. I understand there is no need to read that - it relates back to the written note I produced a few moments ago and it is now admitted that's the handwriting of Ian Huntley, the handwriting expert simply provided a statement to similar effect. My Lord, that's all I propose to read at present.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
thank you.
MR KHALIL
it may be we have reached a point where it would e convenient if your Lordship allowed it-----
MR COWARD
we have one other statement before calling two or three very short witnesses to deal with the search of College Close. - 5 College Close (inaudible) may I read one statement perhaps before we go, my Lord, the beginning of the file number 8? touches upon a matter dealt with by a witness I read sometime ago, it is the first statement in the bundle, the statement of Grant Nicholas Clayton. "I am employed as a contractor manager for the company CJ Murphy limited.
I have worked for this company for 18 years. in my role as contracts manager it is my responsibility to act as an on site supervisor and to ensure that the staff on site have the correct materials and in sufficient quantity to complete the job. Also, it is my job to ensure the right staff are on site at the right times. It is my job at Murphy's to ensure all the Cambridgeshire County Council school work is completed correctly and as such we have completed numerous maintenance jobs at Soham Village College and its relevant out buildings.
On the 15th September 2001 work commenced at the address 5 College Close Soham, the caretaker's address. this work carried out by my company consisted of the following 1, to repair the kitchen units at the address, replace the work tops and make good the walls and plaster. 2, to put in a new ceiling in the dining area, making good, skim and cove. 3, replace all internal doors. 4, fit in a new bathroom suite, a new water closet downstairs in the premises, 5 and 6 are outside work need not trouble you. 7 all internal decorating throughout the address."
he then lists the various people employed at number 5 to do that work. they include a plasterer, tiler, carpenter, labourer and decorator. over the page, my Lord, "From my memory of the work carried out on the dining room ceiling, that was necessary due to the fact that there had been water damage and I recall seeing a hole in the ceiling which I could estimate to be about half a metre in diameter.
To my recollection I'm able to say the bathroom at 5 College Close was situated above the dining room at the address. From the record held at my office, I can state the work appears to have been finished at 5 College Close on the 2nd February 2002. During my time engaged in work at the address at 5 College Close I recall two or three incidents where Ian Huntley came to the address to ask how things were going. but there are no matters of relevance that were discussed with him." my Lord, may I call the witnesses to deal with number 5 after the adjournment.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
you can't get started with one of them? the answer is no. very well then. two o'clock, ladies and gentlemen. Hearing adjourned - will resume after lunch
MR COWARD
my Lord, just before we adjourned I was moving on to 5 college Close. The jury of course is aware that the police seized literally thousands of items from the house of which only a handful are now in any way relevant. For that reason I'm taking the search of 5 College Close very shortly indeed. my Lord, I will call Helen Howarth, please, page 8014.
HELEN HAWORTH , sworn
Examined by MR COWARD
MR COWARD
your full name, please?
HELEN HAWORTH
Mrs Helen Louise Haworth.
MR COWARD
Mrs Haworth, I think you are a forensic scientist, is that right?
HELEN HAWORTH
That's correct.
MR COWARD
where are you based?
HELEN HAWORTH
I am a senior forensic scientist based at the Forensic Science Service in Huntingdon.
MR COWARD
I think you went to 5 College Close on the 18th August of last year, did you not, during the course of a search which had been going on for some time before you got there conducted by a number of scenes of crime officers and police officers?
HELEN HAWORTH
that's correct.
MR COWARD
I want to ask you about one or two matters although I appreciate your statement covers quite a bit of ground. Firstly, I think you went, there came a time when you went into the lounge, the main living room, correct?
HELEN HAWORTH
my Lord, may I use my notes?
(MR JUSTICE MOSES answering)
MR JUSTICE MOSES
yes.
HELEN HAWORTH
thank you.
( MR COWARD continuing)
MR COWARD
I would like you if you will by reference to your notes, for you to just give a general description of the nature of the living room?
HELEN HAWORTH
I have noted in my statement that I have actually called it the lounge.
MR COWARD
yes?
HELEN HAWORTH
the hallway from the front door leads to the left into the lounge, the room itself appeared to be tidy and clean.
MR COWARD
thank you, that's all I needed in relation to that room. The dining room, please, that is a room located opposite the front door, the Jury has been to the house and are familiar with the layout. How did that appear?
HELEN HAWORTH
the room again appeared very clean and tidy.
MR COWARD
was any blood staining found in the area?
HELEN HAWORTH
no.
MR COWARD
did you notice anything about the walls, or the ceiling for that matter, to the dining room?
HELEN HAWORTH
it was noted that what appeared to be water-type run marks which extended from the ceiling to the floor were actually present.
MR COWARD
where were they?
HELEN HAWORTH
as you walk into the dining room, the table would be in front of you, it is the wall to the left.
MR COWARD
there is a dividing wall between the living room you have already described, the lounge you call it, and the dining room, is there not?
HELEN HAWORTH
yes.
MR COWARD
is that the wall you are talking about?
HELEN HAWORTH
correct.
MR COWARD
and would you describe, again, precisely what it was you noted?
HELEN HAWORTH
I noted what appeared to be water-type run marks.
MR COWARD
they were doing what?
HELEN HAWORTH
they extended from ceiling to floor, floor to ceiling, I wasn't able to be more specific.
MR COWARD
the wall to the left on entering the room, did you notice anything about that?
HELEN HAWORTH
that actual room had appeared or appeared to have been recently repainted.
MR COWARD
the kitchen, what was your first impression of that upon going into it?
HELEN HAWORTH
again, the kitchen was very clean and tidy.
MR COWARD
I think at the bottom of the stairs you noted a particular type of vacuum cleaner?
HELEN HAWORTH
yes, it was a Dyson vacuum cleaner.
MR COWARD
I think that was a photograph of it is it not?
HELEN HAWORTH
correct.
MR COWARD
may I take you up into the bathroom, please? now, has you go along the landing into the bathroom, there is or was an airing cupboard to the left, just before you go into the main bathroom, is there not?
HELEN HAWORTH
correct.
MR COWARD
and indeed one wall of the airing cupboard is the end wall of the bathroom against which the end of the bath rested?
HELEN HAWORTH
correct.
MR COWARD
the state of the bathroom?
HELEN HAWORTH
again, the bathroom was noted to be clean and tidy.
MR COWARD
the first photograph we are looking at, at the moment is the picture, as it were, with the airing cupboard on your left as you enter the bathroom isn't it?
HELEN HAWORTH
yes.
MR COWARD
and then on the left not in sight in that picture, of course the bath, you go on to the next picture, we see the bath in situ with the side of the bath having already been pulled away?
HELEN HAWORTH
correct.
MR COWARD
now, the white bath, what type was it, what was it made off?
HELEN HAWORTH
to me it appeared to be plastic.
MR COWARD
did you notice something unusual about that bath?
HELEN HAWORTH
I noted that it had a crack in the side.
MR COWARD
yes. are you able to help us with where that rack was in the side of the bath or not?
HELEN HAWORTH
if you see on the photograph the handle that is outer most of the room, it was below that.
MR COWARD
so on the face of the bath, which is facing out into the bathroom?
HELEN HAWORTH
correct.
MR COWARD
and was the crack a horizontal one or vertical one?
HELEN HAWORTH
vertical.
MR COWARD
and had something been done to that area of damage on the bath?
HELEN HAWORTH
it appeared to have been repaired using a clear type sealant.
MR COWARD
was that sealant still actually on the surface of the bath?
HELEN HAWORTH
I can't recollect.
MR COWARD
was that repair to the inner surface of the bath or to the outer surface, the rough surface of the bath?
HELEN HAWORTH
the sealant was on the inner surface of the bath.
MR COWARD
the inner surface? so the white side of the bath, as it were?
HELEN HAWORTH
yes.
MR COWARD
did you examine the area underneath the bath?
HELEN HAWORTH
only visually from what you can see in the photograph there, I didn't go under.
MR COWARD
what did you see?
HELEN HAWORTH
watermarks were seen on the floor boards although this didn't appear very extensive, but as I say, this was only a very quick visual examination.
MR COWARD
as far as you were aware, was there any other damage to the bath, apart from the damage you have just described the vertical crack near the outer handle?
HELEN HAWORTH
not that I noted.
MR COWARD
thank you, wait there please.
(Cross-examined by MR COWARD)
MR COWARD
Mrs Haworth, when you looked in the dining room, you described finding some watermarks, apparent watermarks on the wall to the left as you go into the dining room. Can we be clear, these were the remnants of what had been water running up or down the wall previously. It was dry by the time you were there on the 18th, was it?
HELEN HAWORTH
it was dry, yes.
MR COWARD
thank you. The second matter is this you know the layout of the house, did you observe at the time that in a position underneath the bath there is in the ceiling of the dining room what had been a central light fitting?
HELEN HAWORTH
I don't recollect.
MR COWARD
Do you have any memory whether there was a light fitting in place on the ceiling of the dining room on the date of your visit?
HELEN HAWORTH
I don't recollect.
MR COWARD
as a scientist or perhaps anybody could work this out, if water wishes to run downhill, doesn't it?
HELEN HAWORTH
it would, yes.
MR COWARD
it it finds a convenient hole to go through, the water will go through that hole, won't it?
HELEN HAWORTH
that's common sense, not not just a scientists's approach.
MR COWARD
no re-examination.
{the witness withdrew}.
MR COWARD
John Price, please,
(John Price, sworn)
Examined by MR COWARD.
MR COWARD
your full name, please??
JOHN PRICE
John Derek Price.
MR COWARD
you are a scenes of crime officer, is that correct?
JOHN PRICE
that's correct, sir, yes.
MR COWARD
were you working at 5 College Close for a considerable time after midday or so on Sunday, 18th August?
JOHN PRICE
that's correct, sir, yes.
MR COWARD
and, indeed, I think you went back on a number of ccasions to the address as the general search progressed?
JOHN PRICE
that's correct, sir, yes.
MR COWARD
as a matter of record, I think, you seized the Dyson vacuum cleaner near the front door in the house?
JOHN PRICE
I did, that's correct.
MR COWARD
I want to ask you about two other things, were you also working with fingerprint officers, or an officer, in relation to a fingerprint search of the house?
JOHN PRICE
that's correct, sir, yes.
MR COWARD
are you aware of whether or not any fingerprint impressions were, as it were, brought up, enhanced, during the course of the search of the house?
JOHN PRICE
there was a number, sir, yes.
MR COWARD
what sort of places were they as you recollect it?
JOHN PRICE
the majority of the ones that were raised were in the bedroom, the master bedroom.
MR COWARD
is that on pieces of furniture or on the wall and door surfaces?
JOHN PRICE
on the wall, sir.
MR COWARD
one further matter which has a particular relevance in the light of recent events the bath. I think on a much later date you went to the house and assisted with the formal seizure of the bath itself from the bathroom, didn't you?
JOHN PRICE
that's correct, sir, yes.
MR COWARD
at the time you seized it was there any evident damage to it?
JOHN PRICE
yes, there was, sir, a crack down the outer side.
MR COWARD
if you look at a photograph, please we can see it, in situ with the outer panel pulled off. can you recollect where the damage was as we see it in the photograph?
JOHN PRICE
yes, sir, the handle you can see nearest the bottom of the picture, it is slightly to the right of that.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
can one see it on the photograph?
JOHN PRICE
you can, my Lord, it is just to the right of the handle.
MR COWARD
I thought I saw it. I'm moving on so we'll all be able to see it very clearly. I have a particular reason for asking these questions. thank you. The other thing I need to ask you about Mr Price, I am so sorry, is that you also did a general assessment of the carpeting in the house, didn't you?
JOHN PRICE
that's correct, sir.
MR COWARD
can you help us with that, please? I think the carpeting in the hall, stairs, landing lounge and master bedroom had all got fitted blue cord carpet in them, hadn't they?
JOHN PRICE
that's correct, sir, they had.
MR COWARD
and did that have the appearance of having been fixed professionally----
JOHN PRICE
it did, yes.
MR COWARD
----by a carpet fitter? there was a small bedroom with an aquarium in it and animal cages, did that also have some carpeting in it?
JOHN PRICE
There was carpeting, my Lord.
MR COWARD
was that carpeted in the same way - in the sense of having been fitted professionally?
JOHN PRICE
that appeared to have been fitted with remnants, sir.
MR COWARD
fitted with remnants? I think in fact there were three separate pieces of carpet in there, weren't there?
JOHN PRICE
that's correct.
MR COWARD
Those remnants, as it were, were they butted, level or overlapping each other?
JOHN PRICE
there was a slight overlap to the middle of the room.
MR COWARD
the other bedroom which is at other end of the landing near the bathroom, the bathroom end of the landing, if I can put it that way, did that have any carpet fitted to it at all?
JOHN PRICE
there was no carpet fitted in that room, sir.
MR COWARD
just one other thing, I have already put to you that you arrived on the 18th August which is the Sunday, Shortly after your arrival what did it seem was likely to happen so far as the weather was concerned?
JOHN PRICE
it looked as though it was going to rain, sir.
MR COWARD
did you not notice something outside?
JOHN PRICE
there was a quantity of washing on the line.
MR COWARD
and as a result of seeing that, and thinking it was about to rain, what did you do?
JOHN PRICE
I went and brought the washing in.
MR COWARD
where did you put the washing after you brought it in from the line?
JOHN PRICE
I placed it on the work top on the left-hand side of the kitchen as you walk in the back door.
MR COWARD
thank you. I think yes, you say - you see the back door to the kitchen - that by the windows?
JOHN PRICE
correct, sir.
MR COWARD
we see a long run of work top with cupboards underneath, then a short piece of work top on two legs attached to the wall. which work top were you talking about?
JOHN PRICE
on the left wall, sir, behind the actual door as the door opens.
MR COWARD
the long run?
JOHN PRICE
correct, sir.
MR COWARD
thank you, would you wait there, please.
MR COWARD
I have no questions.
MR JUSTICE MOSES
thank you very much.
MR COWARD
thank you very much, Mr Price.
(The witness withdrew)
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