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|29/10/97 - Why Myra must never
be freed; Scots detective who arrested evil Hindley ends
Retired police inspector Alex 'Jock' Carr still shudders
every time he hears the strains of The Little Drummer
It is more than 30 years since he listened to the haunting
Christmas melody - on a tape that came straight out
It played gently in the background as a child sobbed
The plaintive voice of a little girl was heard pleading:
"Can I go home to mummy, now please? I will get
Two adult voices were also on the tape - those of the
most evil people in Britain, Myra Hindley and Ian Brady.
With unspeakable inhumanity, the depraved couple were
recording the terrifying last moments of 10-year-old
Lesley Ann Downey as they tortured her before strangling
the little girl for kicks.
Brady and Hindley's sadistic killing of the five innocent
youngsters they lured to their deaths were to become
known as The Moors Murders.
Alex Carr, a young, strapping six-footer from Dunfermline,
was one of the detectives leading the murder investigation.
It was Carr, then a rookie detective sergeant in Hyde,
Cheshire, who arrested both Brady and Hindley.
He recalls: "It was October 7, 1965, and I had
just arrested Brady for the murder of teenager Edward
Evans, whose body we found before they had a chance
to dispose of it.
"But I could never have conceived in my wildest
nightmare what horrors we were about to uncover when
we found that tape."
Alex Carr has never spoken publicly about the Moors
murders before, but does so now because he believes
Hindley must NEVER be released.
He says: "No normal woman would have committed
the atrocities she did. She must die in jail."
Hindley and Glasgow-born Brady were sentenced to life
in 1966 for the murders of 10-year-old Lesley Ann Downey
and 17-year-old Edward Evans.
Brady was found guilty of the murder of 12-year-old
John Kilbride and Hindley convicted of being an accessory.
For years Hindley maintained her innocence but, in
the 1980s confessed to a fuller role in John Kilbride's
She also confessed to her part in the murders of 12-year-olds
Pauline Reade and Keith Bennett, whose grave has still
not been found.
Hindley and Brady buried their young victims on desolate
Saddleworth Moor in the Peak District.
Alex Carr broke his 32-year silence on his involvement
in the Moors murders case as we talked at his neat bungalow
home in a peaceful rural area near Liverpool.
He lives in retirement with his wife June and lives
close to their schoolteacher daughter, Suzy, now in
Recalling the horrific cases that shocked the country,
Alex Carr told me:
HOW he had found the body of 17-year-old axe victim
Edward Evans "trussed up like a turkey" in
the Sixties House of Horror at 16 Wardlebrook Avenue,
HOW "cold" Hindley never showed any emotion.
HOW he had made small-talk about football with fellow-Scot
Brady as they drove to the police station to question
HOW, despite being a devout Catholic, he never prays
for the souls of Hindley or Brady. "It is my opinion
they are both beyond redemption," he says.
AND how he is sorry the death penalty had been abolished
just weeks before they were arrested.
"They both should have gone to the gallows,"
On the day Alex heard that terrible tape recording,
his own daughter Suzy was just three years old. June
recalled how her husband came home late on the day he
and other detectives had listened to the tape .
And she said how he was so distraught and shocked,
he sat down and cried.
Alex, now 71, says: "Yes, it was very upsetting.
I was full up when I came home. It wasn't something
I wanted to talk about.
``I thought about this little girl's voice on the tape
and about how I would feel if that had been my daughter.
I found it deeply distressing. My overwhelming feeling
was one of revulsion.
Listening to those sounds, you could only conjure up
the worst images of what was going on with wee Lesley
Ann Downey, Hindley and Brady.
"Whenever I hear The Little Drummer Boy at Christmas,
it brings back that awful day we sat in the CID office
and listened to the tape. I will never forget it.
"What makes it worse is that Hindley, a woman,
was involved. You'd think every woman's instinct is
to protect a young child, not let her come to harm.
"Here was a kiddie's voice crying and pleading
to be allowed to go home and, far from showing sympathy
or compassion, Hindley was a willing partner in the
atrocities that were taking place."
He added forcefully: "I do not believe Hindley
should ever be released. Life for her should mean life.
Both she and Brady were evil." The pair missed
being hanged because the death penalty was abolished
- FOUR weeks after they were arrested.
Alex says: "That is very unfortunate. It has cost
the taxpayer millions of pounds to keep her and Brady
behind bars. Now it is costing us again as her lawyers
go back to court to plead once more for her freedom.
"If Hindley was released, the chances are another
murder would be committed - only this time she would
be the victim.
"Some may say that wouldn't be a bad thing, but
it just means that someone else will suffer - go to
jail - because of her crimes.
"If she does go free, she will write a book, make
countless TV appearances which will earn her more money
than I did in my 30-year career. She will become a celebrity.
And that is wrong, very wrong."
Until now, Alex has never spoken publicly about "the
most horrific and traumatic" case of his career.
But as Hindley's lawyers prepare to return to the High
Court on December 8 to try to overturn former Home Secretary
Michael Howard's decision that Hindley will spend the
rest of her life in jail, he has agreed to speak out.
The son of a Rosyth docker, who retired from the police
force almost 20 years ago, says: "I think the public
should know the facts."
He adds: I had a duty to arrest Hindley and Brady in
1965 and now I believe it is in the public interest
for me to give my side of the story. Myra Hindley was
evil then and I believe she is still evil now, as is
Brady who, of course, will never be free because he
is mentally ill and is locked away in a top-security
"I was surprised that Hindley was not also found
to have a psychiatric illness. I cannot believe that
a normal woman could commit these crimes. It is said
that she fell under Brady's spell, but I think if she
became a convert, then she became more dedicated to
their terrible acts even than him."
Channel 4 reveals the results of a specially-commissioned
MORI poll tonight in a powerful documentary, Witness:
Mercy For Myra Hindley? (9.00pm). Alex Carr speaks,
along with families of the victims, who also say there
can be no forgiveness.
GRUESOME JIGSAW OF EVIL NAILED THE TWISTED KILLERS
Police forces across Manchester slowly pieced together
a gruesome jigsaw of evil to pin the murders of five
youngsters on Hindley and Brady.
Detectives were tipped off about the murder of Edward
Evans by Hindley's brother-in-law, David Smith, who
had witnessed the killing.
Alex Carr said: "I was called in on a rest day
and went with Superintendent Bob Talbot to the house
in Hattersley where Hindley and Brady were staying.
"Brady was asleep downstairs - which was just
as well because we had been warned that there were guns
and ammunition in the house, and these were found upstairs.
"Hindley's granny was asleep in a room. Then,
in a locked bedroom, we found the body of Edward Evans,
who had been killed with an axe.
"He was tied up like a turkey and was no doubt
destined for a grave on the moors.
"I took Brady in for questioning ... but not,
at that point, Hindley. At that time we didn't know
about the other murders."
But that soon changed when police, on Alex's intuition,
recovered two suitcases from the left luggage at Manchester
Central Station and were stunned by their shocking contents.
Alex added: "That was when we found the terrible
audio tape, pornographic books and literature on Brady's
obsession with Hitler and the Nazis.
"There was also a roll of film in a little halibut
oil capsule tin. They were photographs of sexually-assaulted
Lesley Ann Downey and they had Hindley's fingerprints
on them. Lesley Ann had been missing from Manchester.
"We began to realise the enormity of what we were
"A school jotter had Brady's doodling on it, with
names written in a circle round a sketch of a face.
One was John Kilbride who was missing.
"His body was found along with Lesley's on the
moors. All the others have been found now, except Keith
Bennett's. His mother, poor haunted woman, still searches
the moors every week."
Hindley later admitted that she "drove the car"
when Edward Evans was picked up. Questioned by Alex,
Brady made only one statement, admitting that he had
hit Evans with an axe, and Alex still has a copy. In
it, Brady told how Evans "gurgled" as he fell
to the floor and how he had cleaned up the blood before
tying up his body and taking it upstairs before deciding
"to get rid of it later".
Alex's lasting memory of Hindley - whose bleached hair
and staring eyes from the 1965 photo still chill the
world - was of a "cold" woman.
He said: "She was totally lacking in emotion.
She never showed any remorse at any time when I spoke
"She was hard and evil."
FAMILIES SAY LIFE .. OR DEATH
Ann West, the mother of 10-year-old victim Lesley Ann
Downey, is just one of those who have pledged to kill
Myra Hindley if the Moors Murderer is ever released.
In tonight's Channel 4 programme, viewers will hear
how Mrs West had to listen to the tape Hindley and Ian
Brady made of her daughter's final moments, so that
she could identify Lesley's voice ....
How she heard Lesley begging to go home to mummy, promising
not to tell anyone what the evil pair had done to her
And how she also had to identify her daughter from
two graphic photographs - one of her naked, gagged and
bound over a chair, the other of her gagged and bound
on Hindley's bed.
Mrs West says: "And those were the two that the
police said were good, that I could look at ..."
Families of the other victims also say Hindley should
never be freed.
Danny Kilbride, whose 11-year-old brother John disappeared
from Ashton- under-Lyme in November 1963, says: "Whether
she's repented or not, she should pay the price - life
And he warns: "Without any doubts, if I ever come
face to face with Myra Hindley, she's dead."
Pauline Reade was 16 when she disappeared on her way
to a dance in 1963 - the first victim of the Moors Murderers.
Her mother Joan says: "Even now, I think about
her every day, and the way she had to go. That's never
to be forgotten. Never."
Penal reform campaigner Lord Longford has long backed
Hindley's battle for apardon.
He befriended her just a few years after she was jailed
and says he remembers her as a "quiet, courteous,
very pleasant girl".
He attacks the media for their "exploitation"
of Ann West and says: "I'm tremendously sorry for
her, but letting her decide Myra's fate would be ludicrous."
But Mrs West - who has had to move her daughter's grave
because of sick vandals claiming to be "Hindley
followers" - reveals how Longford told her that
unless she forgave Hindley and Brady, she would not
go to heaven.
She adds: "I called him and said ... `You're the
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