| 29/03/99
- Nicholls v British Broadcasting Corporation - Court
of Appeal JUDGMENT
JUDGMENT
Confidential Information - Remedies - Breach of confidentiality
- Injunction - "Supergrass" documentary including
close-ups of features and mannerisms of plaintiff and
wife - Whether broadcasting of documentary would substantially
increase risk of harm to plaintiff or family above and
beyond that of pre-broadcasting publicity - Nicholls
v British Broadcasting Corporation - Court of Appeal
(Civil Division) - Butler-Sloss LJ, Schiemann LJ, Potter
LJ - 29.03.99
IN THE SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE
COURT OF APPEAL (CIVIL DIVISION)
Royal Courts of Justice
29th March 1999
BEFORE:
LADY JUSTICE BUTLER-SLOSS
LORD JUSTICE SCHIEMANN
LORD JUSTICE POTTER
BETWEEN:
DARREN NICHOLLS
Plaintiff/Appellant
and
BRITISH BROADCASTING CORPORATION
Defendant/Respondent
JUDGMENT
LORD JUSTICE POTTER:
INTRODUCTION
The appellant, Mr Nicholls, is a "Supergrass"
now living under an assumed name. He has a wife and
two young children. He gave evidence at the Central
Criminal Court at the end of 1997 which resulted in
the conviction in January 1998 of two men, Steele and
Whomes, for the gangland murder of three large scale
drug dealers in Essex in 1995.
The resulting threat to his life and the safety of his
family was thought to be such that, in May 1996, they
were placed on the Essex Police Witness Protection Programme.
They now live a new life in England, far from their
former home.
The appellant and his wife are the subject of a television
programme entitled "Supergrass" ("the
film") which was scheduled to be broadcast on BBC
1 on Wednesday 3rd February 1999. It had been made with
the full co-operation of the appellant, measures being
taken to conceal the physical identities and location
of himself and his wife, who appeared in the film.
However, a few hours before the film was due to be shown,
upon application being made by telephone to Poole J
for an Order restraining its showing, the appellant
was granted an Order in these terms:
"The defendant, that is the BBC, must not broadcast
to the public any programme which shows any physical
characteristics of the plaintiff, his immediate family,
or those living with him, or directly or indirectly
identifies his current whereabouts or those of his immediate
family or those living with him."
Upon notice of the injunction being granted, the BBC
("the respondents") attempted unsuccessfully
to obtain a discharge or variation of the Order and
the film did not go out.
On 18th February 1999 Morland J, at an inter partes
hearing, discharged the injunction. He refused leave
to appeal but, upon being informed that the appellant
would apply for leave to this court, he ordered that
the terms of the injunction should continue in force
until the determination of the application for leave
to appeal and, should leave be granted, of the substantive
appeal.
THE FACTS
More fully stated, the relevant background is as follows.
The victims of the murder on the 7th December 1995 were
three known drug dealers, Tate, Tucker and Rolfe, who
were found shot dead in a Range Rover parked on a farm
track in Rettenden, Essex.
In May 1996 the Essex Police arrested the appellant,
Steele and Whomes in relation to drug offences. A few
days later Steele and Whomes were charged with murder
upon the statement of the appellant, their accomplice,
who had driven them to the scene of the shooting.
He offered his evidence in return for immunity from
prosecution for the murders. Pending the trial, the
appellant was held on remand and in custody, his wife
and children being placed under the protection of Essex
Police and relocated in a safe house.
In the meantime, the Head of Factual Drama at London
Weekend Television ("LWT") was approached
by a journalist, Tony Thompson, with the appellant's
authority, with a suggestion for a film about the appellant
and his experiences as police informer about which Mr
Thompson was already writing a book.
As a result LWT commissioned a "video diary"
type of film featuring the appellant before, during
and after the trial of the murders. On 22nd May 1997
the appellant (under the assumed name of Ken Rugby),
Thompson and LWT entered into an agreement in relation
to the project.
Clause 8 of the Agreement (Right Of Consultation) provided
as follows:
"Mr Rugby shall have a right of consultation in
respect of a final edit of the Programme solely for
the purpose of ensuring that his identity is concealed
throughout the programme".
Clause 10 (Acknowledgement) provided:
"You [Mr Rugby] hereby acknowledge that there
may be risks involved in the rendering of your Services
and the exploitation of the products of your Services
hereunder and that you voluntarily assume the entire
risk of any loss, damage or injury which you incur as
a result thereof."
Extensive video diary filming of the appellant was carried
out between May and the trial, including certain sequences
in the police cells, with a view to the final product
being shown on Channel 4. From June 1997 the person
in LWT responsible for the film and its completion was
Mr William Smith.
At trial, the appellant gave evidence against Steele
and Whomes, being protected from the public gaze by
screens, while remaining visible to the defendants,
the jury and the judge. Following the trial, the appellant
and his family were relocated under the Witness Protection
Programme, various filmed sequences being made thereafter.
In October 1998, LWT entered into a new agreement with
Mr Thompson relating to the making and exploitation
of the film.
However, in late October 1998 the new commissioning
editor of Channel 4 decided that Channel 4 did not wish
to proceed with the film as then planned and LWT approached
the editor of the respondents' "Inside Story"
series, which commissioned a film about the appellant
in the form of a full-scale documentary (involving further
filming of the appellant), rather than a video diary.
The respondents did not enter into any agreement with
Mr Thompson or the appellant in relation to this further
filming, its obligation under the commissioning agreement
being only to LWT.
It is stated in the first affidavit of Mr Smith that
it was always made clear to the appellant, through Mr
Thompson, that LWT had no intention of including any
material in the final version of the film which might
reveal the appellant's new identity or his new whereabouts,
Clause 8 of the Agreement being included to ensure that
that was so.
When further filming took place between November 1998
and 3rd February 1999, in various locations, LWT went
to considerable lengths to meet concerns expressed by
the appellant, his wife, Mr Thompson and the Essex Police
about the possible identification of the appellant,
his family or their new whereabouts.
On 31st October 1998, the appellant discussed the proposed
filming techniques for the on-screen interviews including
use of close-ups of limited facial detail.
In November 1998 he and his wife participated in sequences
shot at a beach somewhere in England, it being expressly
agreed that only long distance shots would be used and
that, in the subsequent interviews, extreme close-up
shots would be employed whereby only a limited part
of the face would be visible.
They were given the opportunity to look at a television
monitor to see how they were depicted and raised no
objections.
In December 1998 the programme's assistant producer
met the appellant with a photographer to take photographs
for the purposes of promotion and publicity, the appellant
being photographed holding his hands up so as to cover
his face.
One of the photographs taken during that session was
used to publicise the film, being reproduced in the
national press. In January 1999 further filming took
place. During January a video tape containing extracts
of interview sequences was sent to Mr Thompson, who
sent them on to the appellant.
Mr Thompson expressed concern about a shot containing
a reflection of the appellant in a metal tap and that
shot was excised. Following a view of a rough-cut of
the film, at Mr Thompson's suggestion, the appellant's
voice was treated electronically to disguise it.
The appellant was offered the opportunity to watch the
whole film. However, he was unable easily to attend
and indicated that he was content for Thompson to watch
it on his behalf.
At the end of January 1999, an article was published
about the appellant in the Sunday Mirror which publicised
the position of the appellant as a supergrass but did
nothing to identify him. The appellant telephoned the
assistant producer of the programme informing him that
his sister-in-law had received a threatening telephone
call and that the police felt obliged to put alarms
on her house.
He also said that his mother had been warned by the
Essex Police that he was putting his family at risk
by taking part in the film and that the Essex Police
were threatening to take him off the Witness Protection
Programme; however he still wanted the film to go ahead.
On 1st February 1999 the appellant indicated that he
wished the showing of the trailer advertising the programme,
the broadcast of which had commenced on 28th January,
to be stopped. He said the police were offering to relocate
his wife and children but that he had declined their
offer to be moved, a fact later confirmed by the police.
On that day Mr Smith contacted the Essex Police who
asked to view the programme. When Mr Smith arrived at
Chelmsford Police Station for that purpose he was handed
a letter from the Essex Police dated 1st February 1999
setting out their position and stating:
"INSIDE STORY: WITNESS PROTECTION
"The above programme made by yourselves.. involves
an individual who is being protected by Essex Police
under the Witness Protection Programme.
It is the belief of Essex Police that as a result of
his involvement in this programme, this individual has
put himself and the officers protecting him at greater
risk of harm than existed prior to the programme being
made and shown on television.
The individual has been advised and I would ask you
to note that his involvement with your programme is
not endorsed or encouraged by Essex Police, and it is
at his own risk."
The letter went on to state that the police attitude
and intentions would be further clarified after consideration
of the programme.
Thereafter police officers, and the Essex Police solicitor
viewed the programme, voiced various concerns and made
various suggestions which Mr Smith undertook to discuss
with the respondents.
It was agreed that parts of the visual shots would be
excised or altered to meet the concerns expressed and
that the electronically treated voice-overs would be
removed and replaced with actors' voices. A further
view was arranged for the next day and the same persons
attended at LWT.
They were offered the opportunity to watch the film
in its entirety but declined, asking simply to view
the changes which had been made since the meeting and
to listen to a sample of the actors' voices which would
be used.
A police officer expressed his satisfaction that the
producers had made every effort to act on the suggestions
of the Essex Police and that the police would not themselves
seek an injunction to restrain the broadcast. However,
they did not express approval of the film or withdraw
from their view that it gave rise to increased risk
to the appellant and his family.
THE JUDGMENT BELOW
Before the judge, the principal submission for the
respondents was that the identity of the appellant as
a supergrass was already fully in the public domain,
in the sense that his original name with a picture of
him, as he used to be, are available to the public as
part of a campaign by the family of one of the convicted
men to establish his innocence and that, so far as the
film itself was concerned, pre-publicity cards in relation
to the appellant showing him clad as for the film and
with his face covered by his hands were already in wide
circulation.
In these circumstances, the respondents submitted that
a cause of action based on breach of confidence was
not available to support the grant of an injunction.
For the appellant, Mr Newman Q.C. advanced the case
on the basis that there was a real danger that someone,
in the locality where the plaintiff and his family are
now living, might recognise the plaintiff or his wife
from the close-up pictures in the programme, and, realising
that they were newcomers to the locality might disclose
their true identity which could get back to hitmen in
the criminal underworld connected with the murderers
or their victims.
The appellant's case on the question of increased risk
was essentially that set out in a letter of 10th February
1999 from the solicitor to the Essex Police, explaining
the police position in full, to which I shall refer
further hereafter.
The judge, having canvassed the arguments, referred
only shortly to the law. He did not deal expressly with
the question of breach of confidence but stated that
he was satisfied that he had power to make the Order
obtained so long as the facts and circumstances warranted
it, referring to certain observations of Lord Goff in
South Carolina v Assurantie [1987] 1 AC 25 at 44G as
follows:
"I am reluctant to accept the proposition that
the power of the court to grant injunctions is restricted
to certain exclusive categories. That power is unfettered
by statute; and it is impossible for us now to foresee
every circumstance in which it may be thought right
to make the remedy available."
However, having carefully set out the rival submissions
as to the facts and relevant history, Morland J stated:
"I have reached the clear conclusion that no significantly
increased risk of life and limb will be occasioned to
the plaintiff or his family if the programme in its
present state of editing as seen by me is broadcast.
"For these reasons the Order of Poole J will be
discharged."
In refusing leave to appeal the judge stated his reason
as follows:
"After a full hearing I came to the conclusion
that there was no significantly increased risk to life
and limb to the plaintiff and his family if the programme
was broadcast. I have to balance that risk against freedom
of expression and the BBC's duty to broadcast serious
programmes of public interest."
THE GROUNDS OF APPEAL
It is accepted by the appellant that the judge was
right, in exercising his discretion, to balance the
risk of harm to the plaintiff or his family against
any curtailment of freedom of expression if the injunction
were continued.
However, it is said that he failed to take account of
another vital public interest, namely the serious harm
to the administration of justice if the programme were
aired, taking into account the observations of the Essex
Police in their letter of 10th February.
It is said that the judge had to decide, as a precursor
to the exercise of his discretion, whether the physical
characteristics of the appellant and his wife as depicted
in the programme were such as significantly to increase
the risk of identification by someone from the community
in which the plaintiff now lives under a new identity.
In this respect it is submitted that, although various
witnesses for each of the parties deposed as to their
subjective views as to the likelihood of identification
occurring, there was no "professional" evidence
to contradict the considered and objective views of
the Essex Police, and that the judge should not have
substituted his own view of the risk factor for views
expressed by Witness Protection Programme officers.
On that basis, and on the basis of the content of the
film, which the judge viewed on video, it is asserted
that the judge was manifestly wrong to ignore the depiction
of physical characteristics from which the appellant's
new neighbours and acquaintances could identify him.
Finally, it is stated that, in balancing the competing
public interests, the judge should have adopted an approach
consistent with that adopted by the courts when dealing
with public interest immunity applications relating
to the disclosure of the identity of informants in criminal
proceedings.
Had he done so, it is submitted that he would have decided
that the needs of the due administration of justice
outweighed the requirements of freedom of expression.
THE CAUSE OF ACTION
This court has been spared lengthy argument upon the
nature of the appellant's cause of action. There is
now before the court (as there was not before the judge)
a statement of claim in which the matter is put on two
bases.
(1) It is pleaded that the respondents owe to the appellant
a duty of confidentiality in respect of any footage
in the film which reveals the physical features of the
appellant and his wife in such a way as to compromise
the protection of his identity and present location.
Mr Newman Q.C. for the appellants has founded this duty
upon the knowledge which the respondents had of the
basis of the appellant's co-operation (even if not the
terms of his contract) with LWT, and the recognition
in the affidavit of Olivia Lichtenstein (the editor
of the "Inside Story" series) that there were
detailed discussions between the respondents and LWT
as to the measures to be taken to protect the appellant's
new identity.
During those discussions, she learned of LWT's assurances
to Mr Thompson (as the appellant's agent) that the programme
makers had no intention of including any footage which
might reveal the appellant's identity and the filming
thereafter continued on that common undertaking.
(2) Alternatively, reliance is placed on the widely
worded statutory jurisdiction of the court under s.37(1)
of the Supreme Court Act 1981 as apt to cover a situation
in which it is alleged that, by broadcasting the programme,
the respondents would be facilitating the commission
of a serious crime, namely the murder of, or serious
bodily harm to, the plaintiff and/or his wife and family.
Whether or not because of doubts which he felt in relation
to (1), the judge was content to rest his jurisdiction
on (2), relying on Lord Goff's reservation which I have
already quoted from the South Carolina case at p.42
(with which Lord MacKay agreed) in relation to the formulation
by Lord Brandon of the "basic principles"
governing the grant of injunctions: see p.39H-40E (with
which Lord Bridge and Lord Brightman agreed).
It is unnecessary for this court to engage in consideration
of the various interesting questions which arise in
relation to (2), because Mr Browne Q.C. for the respondents
has been content to accept for purposes of this interlocutory
appeal that an arguable cause of action exists on the
basis of confidentiality as set out in (1).
The respondents take the pragmatic and commendable view
that, if it is this court's opinion that the showing
of the programme in its present form would indeed substantially
increase the risk of harm or injury to the plaintiff
or his family, over and above that which already existed
on 3rd February by reason of the plaintiff's activities
and co-operation in the pre-programme publicity, then
they would not to wish to show the film.
THE ARGUMENT
A good deal of time has been spent before us in exploring
the history of the matter and seeking to analyse the
motives and test the attitude of the appellant who,
having originally been content to leave approval of
the film to the discretion of Mr Thompson (who appeared
to accept the steps taken by the respondents as sufficient),
belatedly changed his stance to one of reliance upon
objections advanced by the police.
Mr Browne Q.C. also urged the court to adopt an attitude
of scepticism towards the objections of the police,
which, as he submitted, appeared on examination to be
based upon a natural antipathy to any form of publicity
in respect of persons relocated under their Witness
Protection Programme, rather than upon genuine or, at
any rate, rational fears that the film would prejudice
the safety of the appellant or his family.
Taking those matters into account, Mr Browne Q.C. argued
that the judge, having viewed the film, was fully entitled
to form the view that no significantly increased risk
to life and limb would be occasioned to the plaintiff
or his family if the film were transmitted.
Mr Newman Q.C. on the other hand, has argued as follows.
First, while accepting that there is likely to be a
natural antipathy on the part of the police to films
of this kind, he submits that they are in the best position
to assess the question of increased risk.
In this respect he relies upon the content of the letter
of 10th February 1999. Besides setting out certain general
considerations in relation to the safety of persons
the subject of Witness Protection Programmes, and making
clear that the appellant acted contrary to police advice,
that letter includes the following statements of fact
or expression of view.
The appellant is under protection because he is regarded
as at high risk of harm, due to the evidence he gave
against the two men convicted. Even after the alterations
to the film effected at the request of the police on
1st February, the police considered that the safety
of the appellant and his family would be further compromised
if the programme were shown.
The parts of the programme which offended in this respect
were the many close-ups showing the lower part of the
appellant's and his wife's faces as they spoke and,
in particular, those which showed the wife's distinctive
tooth pattern as she talked, the appellant's teeth (which
have distinctive staining) and (in distance shots) the
appellant's outline and distinctive walk.
The letter does not mention (though I would add) that
the shape and colour of their eyes are also revealed
in close-up shots during interview.
Second, Mr Newman Q.C. invites the court, having viewed
the film, to form its own opinion upon the likelihood
that new friends or acquaintances, including shopkeepers,
parents of the children's friends, habitues of the local
pubs, and others now familiar with the appellant and
his wife in their new life and location, may see the
programme and recognise them as a result of the characteristics
I have mentioned being portrayed upon the film.
This, as Mr Newman Q.C. submits, is essentially a matter
of impression and common sense rather than expert opinion.
In this respect, he refers also to the fact that observers
of the film would be able to gather from its content
that the appellant and his wife have children and the
approximate time at which they would first have appeared
in their new location.
Third, Mr Newman Q.C. argues, again as a matter of
common sense rather than expertise, that if identification
occurs, or indeed suspicions are aroused, there is a
risk of that information being passed on to the family
or associates of the convicted men.
In this connection, the programme not only makes clear
that there is said to be a very high price upon the
head of the appellant, but also that the family of one
of the convicted men is anxious to locate the appellant
to come forward and tell "the truth" as they
assert it, namely that the man in question was not in
fact at the scene at the crime.
THE CONTENT OF THE FILM
As already indicated, we have viewed the film. Without
going into detail beyond that already remarked upon
by the police in the letter of 10th February, I for
my part am satisfied that, contrary to the apparent
view of the judge below, a reasonably observant person
acquainted with the appellant and his wife in the area
in which they now live might well be able to recognise
one or both of them from the extent of their features
and mannerisms depicted in the film.
This is particularly so in relation to the wife, whose
very distinctive tooth pattern is revealed as she speaks
and whose face is exposed to a substantial extent at
moments in the film. Thus, despite the well-intentioned
efforts taken to eliminate the danger of recognition,
I do not think it has been avoided.
Mr Browne Q.C. has urged, and I recognise, that the
retention of the methods adopted, namely limited close-up
rather than blanking out, is desirable to give the film
a greater sense of immediacy and verisimilitude, and
therefore greater impact upon the viewer; however, the
price paid appears to me to have been failure of the
safeguard intended.
I say that my view is contrary to the "apparent"
view of the judge, because, rather than expressing a
clear view whether or how far the content of the film
might tend to identify the appellant and his wife, he
simply expressed his decision in terms of "no significantly
increased risk", without expressing the starting
point from which such increase was to be assessed, or
otherwise giving reasons for his view.
I assume, however, that his starting point was the situation
as it existed on 3rd February, when pre-publicity had
already gone out depicting (a) a frontal view of the
appellant with his hands over his face and (b) the back
view of a bulky figure in a woolly hat with no obvious
distinguishing features or characteristics.
Although it is true that the police expressed concern
that even those matters might to some extent compromise
the safety of the defendant, I accept the view of the
judge and the agreement of both Mr Browne Q.C. and Mr
Newman Q.C. that those items of publicity were of no
significance as aids to identification of the appellant.
That being so, the assessment of increased risk involves
a comparison between the position as it stood on 3rd
February when, so far as the public was concerned, there
was a heightened interest in the defendant as a relocated
and protected witness, but no significant pointers to
his physical appearance or new identity, and a situation,
if the film were shown, in which persons in the appellant's
new community might well be able to recognise him and
his wife as a result of their images on screen, coupled
with other material available from the programme, such
as the number and rough age of the children and the
likely date at which the family arrived in the locality.
I also consider there is an appreciable risk that, if
identification occurs then, either inadvertently or
thorough malice, or with a view to reward, the whereabouts
of the appellant's family may be brought to the attention
of those who would seek to do him harm.
CONCLUSION
That being so, I consider that the judge was wrong
in the conclusion to which he came. Not only was the
risk of identification from the film self-evidently
increased for reasons which I have stated, but the increase
was in my view substantial.
Mr Browne Q.C. has submitted that, on the evidence
available, this court should not interfere with the
judge's decision because it involved an assessment of
the evidence and risk in a manner well within the limits
of the judge's discretion in relation to the grant of
injunctions.
There is no indication that the judge omitted any important
matter from his consideration; indeed it is clear that
he carefully considered the evidence and submissions
of the parties; that being so, submits Mr Browne, this
court should not interfere simply because its own view
may be different.
Superficially, that argument has force. However, in
my view it is conditioned by three particular features
of the case. (i) Mr Browne's concession that, if this
court is satisfied that the showing of the film would
indeed involve a substantially increased risk to the
appellant and his family, including of course his children,
then the respondents would not seek to show it.
Mr Browne's submissions have centred upon the question
whether such increased risk has been demonstrated. (ii)
Given that the undisputed assessment of the police that
the appellant and his family are in any event potentially
at risk from those who might seek them out in their
new and presently unknown locality, the question of
whether or not that risk is enhanced as a result of
showing the film depends essentially upon an appraisal
of the film itself and the degree to which recognition
of the appellant or his wife is likely, if it is shown.
That is a task which this court is in as good a position
to undertake as the judge. That being so, it seems to
me that, if this court is of the clear view that the
judge was wrong in his assessment of the film and its
likely effect for the reasons which I have already given,
then we are entitled to reverse his decision.
(iii) Independently of Mr Browne's concession, it seems
to me that, in the special circumstances of a case which
involves not simply the safety of the appellant but
that of his wife and (minor) children, if, having seen
the film, this court considers that the judge came to
the wrong decision, then we should not hesitate to reverse
it.
I do so consider. I therefore also consider that this
appeal should succeed subject to the following observations.
Mr Browne Q.C. urged upon us, and I have well in mind,
the importance of having regard to the principle of
free expression. Mr Newman Q.C., on the other hand,
has argued that we should have regard to the interests
of the administration of justice and, in particular,
the principle which protects the identity of informants
in criminal proceedings.
So far as the principle of freedom of expression is
concerned, while it is always of importance, and indeed
should usually be the starting point from which the
court proceeds, it does not seem to me a strong consideration
in this particular case.
That is because it is common ground between the parties
that the film was recognised from the outset by all
concerned to be made on the basis that it should and
would effectively protect the new identity and whereabouts
of the appellant. The appellant is entitled to succeed
because in its present form it does not do so.
There are a number of reasons why the public interest
immunity protection of the identity of informers cannot
be invoked in this case, the most obvious being that
the true identity of the appellant as the informer has
been well known for years (as opposed to his present
name and whereabouts).
If and in so far as protection is sought simply upon
the basis that the appellant is the subject of protection
under a police Witness Protection Programme, difficult
questions arise, not least as to the appropriate plaintiff
in a claim put on such novel grounds.
For the purposes of this case, it seems to me neither
necessary nor profitable to explore those questions.
I therefore decline Mr Newman's invitation to articulate
some new principle or approach to the grant of injunctions
in a case of this kind.
It is sufficient, in the circumstances of this case,
to have regard (as indeed the judge did) to the question
of the degree of danger to the appellant and his family
which would result if the respondents acted so as to
breach the confidentiality upon which he relies.
Finally, Mr Browne Q.C. has argued that, in the event
of the appeal being allowed, the wording of the Order
originally granted by Poole J was too wide, to the extent
that it amounted to an unrestricted embargo upon revealing
the identity of the appellant, as opposed to prejudicing
the "new" identity assumed by him in his new
location.
It seems to me that the necessity for `tinkering' with
the Order of Poole J would be avoided if this court
were to grant an injunction preventing the showing of
the film until trial of the action or further Order.
Mr Browne Q.C. made clear that the respondents might
wish to consider further alteration to the film so as
to render it unobjectionable in terms of increased risk
to the appellant and his family. In that regard, they
will of course, be at liberty to apply to the court
in respect of any intended transmission.
Subject to further argument as to the appropriate form
of order, I would allow the appeal.
LORD JUSTICE SCHIEMANN: I agree.
LADY JUSTICE BUTLER-SLOSS: I also agree.
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