| The Dream Solution
- Documents |
08/08/91
- RECORD OF TAPE RECORDED INTERVIEW of LISA JANE TAYLOR
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LT
Um, they're mine.
WDC S
They, they're yours?
LT
Yeah.
WDC S
There were some black leather boots, hard sort of boots.
Are they yours?
LT
Yeah.
WDC S
Then in the bag with the single trainer were some brown
boots two pairs of brown boots. Are they yours?
LT
Yeah.
WDC S
Can you speak up a bit? Are they yours?
LT
Yeah.
WDC S
Yeah. And there was a black pair of Filer training shoes
which along with all the others Sergeant GLEESON recovered
from your room are they ones, those yours as well?
LT
Yeah.
WDC S
Their yours as well? And when I refer to the black training
shoes well in fact there's another pair as well, I beg your
pardon, there is a pair of red Filer training shoes, are
they yours?
LT
Yeah.
WDC S
Can you speak up?
LT
Yeah. WDC And the black ones Sergeant GLEESON has referred
to by his initials his initials which are BG, the black
ones are referred to BG/3 an the red ones are referred to
as BG/1, but I shall describe them in words 'cos it's easier,
but later reference that what they are
WDC S
they're given a reference to each Officer that finds it.
So just to go over then, the white ones that I found that
you were wearing they're yours, but the only, the ones that
Michelle has worn those as well, but the one shoe that was
on its own, all three of you have worn?
LT
Yeah.
WDC S
Okay. I believe that at least three of those shoes I'm going
to send to the laboratory and the reason why is because
that I believe that the tread on the bottom of three of
those shoes is similar to to a tread pattern that was retained
and found at the scene. The scene of the murder at Vardens
Road. Have you ever been to Varden Road, flat 3?
LT
No comment.
WDC S
41?
LT
No comment.
WDC S
Have those shoes been in flat 3, 41 Vardens Road?
LT
No comment.
WDC S
Because this is your opportunity to say now.
LT
No comment.
WDC S
Because I also believe that if you haven't been there and
you were a totally innocent party, that like the other questions
I have asked you as to whether they belong to you, yes or
no, would be easy answer to answer. Have you been to flat
3, 41 Vardens Road?
LT
No comment.
DS G
See we're sitting here Lisa, and I appreciate you're 18
years of age and I've spoken to you at length yesterday
and my colleague has oviously speaking to you this morning.
You know why you've been arrested, yes? It's been explained
to you several times, yes?
LT
Yeah.
DS G
You've been arrested for the murder of Alison SHAUGHNESSY
as has your sister Michelle. Yes? You, you, can you just
confirm for me you're aware of why you're here?
LT
Yeah.
DS G
And we're not talking about a trivial offence here, we're
talking about a very serious, more serious offence aren't
we? Well, would you consider murder to be a serious offence?
LT
No comment.
DS G
No comment. See that's the point I'm making, 'no comment.'
A
LT
hough it is your right" in law to make no comment,
you sit here and you'll answer the questions which are of
no great consequence to anyone, 'I own this' or 'I own that'
and 'that belongs to my sister' or whatever, and then my
colleague says to you with regard to your shoes, the possibility
of your shoe marks being found at the scene of a murder,
'no comment.'
She said, "Now is your opportunity to tell us if you're
involved in Alison SHAUGHNESSY's murder." I haven't
been there, I know nothing about the murder, its, you sit
there calm and cool and collective,'no comment,' when we're
accusing you of murder. That's why we're all sitting in
the room.
I'm accusing you of murder, not shop lifting or anything
trivial, I'm accusing you of murder, and you sit there when
your given a million and one opportunities to say, "I
know nothing about it, it's got nothing to do with me,"
which is what you said in your statement, you said in your
statement, you said, I believe it says, 'I've never been
to Vardens Road,' but when my colleague asks you about your
shoes and the possibility, I say possibility, strong possibility,
of your shoe marks being found at the scene of the murder,
'no comment.'
And you're looking away from me again as I'm talking to
you. I mean you're totally disinterested aren't you It doesn't,
this interview, it means nothing to you does it? It's of
no consequence to you this interview. Because you know if
you make the comment to any of my questions here, I'll prove
you're lying. And the only way you can protect yourself
at this very moment is by saying,"No comment."
Because once you open your mouth and say something, I'll
disprove it. I will disprove, I will show you to be a liar.
And as far as I'm concerned, we've been here fo 18 minutes,
and besides establishing, we already knew of the fact that
they were your shoes because I asked you that yesterday
when we arrested you and you were brought to the Police
Station and the property was recorded in your presence in
the Custody Office and you acknowledged to me and the Custody
Officer that these shoes an the other items removed from
the house were yours, and you subsequently signed for them.
We've been here for 18 minutes.
The only thing we've established is the fact that a jacket
found in the rear of your sister's car is yours, and the
fact that you now acknowledge after we had two hours of
interview, I think if not more yesterday, you now actually
acknowledge this morning that you actually did make a statement.
Do you agree you've made a statemet previously to police,
which when I asked you yesterday, because Mr HOLMES and
I were speaking with regard to your decision to exercise
your right of silence prior to the interview commencing,
when I asked you about your statement yesterday, "Did
you make a statement "No comment."
That's not confirmation when you've made a statement So
we've actually established this morning after all these
hours of interview, 'Yes, I've actually made a statement
at some stage to police, a witness statement.' Now you signed
that statment when you made that statement, there's a declaration
at the top of every statement that basically says that,
um, I don't know the exact wording of it, but uh, you're
basically commiting perjury if you tell any lies and you
sign a declaration which you did underneath. You signed
a statement to police, is that correct? The statement you've
already admitted making, you recall signing that statement?
LT
Yeah.
DS G
So as far as you were concerned, when you made that statement,
that statement was true? This statement is true to my belief,
yes?
LT
Yep.
DS G
But we know that that's a lie don't we? We know because
of, as an example, we know because of Jeanette TAPP that
it's a lie. See because it comes down to now, your, either
your statement is true and Jeanette TAPP is telling lies.
One of you has got to be telling
DS G
lies, do you agree with that?
MH
Deal with the question.
DS G
Tell me, it's not a trick question, it's a straight forward
question at the moment it comes down to the fact that Jeanette
TAPP's telling lies, forget the people at the Clinic, either
Jeanett TAPP is telling lies or you're telling lies. Because
without going all over it again, I mentioned yesterday about
Jeanette TAPP saying what she has disclosed now to police,
and you stating in your statement that you'd gone shopping,
you got back about quarter past five etc, and Michelle going
to the flowers at six o'clock and that, you signed that
statement as getting back at quarter past five and so forth
as being correct. Is that true?
LT
Yeah.
DS G
So either you or Jeanette TAPP is telling lies? Or mistaken?
LT
Yeah.
DS G
I invite you to give me a reason as to why Jeanette TAPP
is mistaken or why she should be lying to me. I'm asking
you to tell me why she should have to lie or to police,
or be badly mistaken?
LT
No comment.
DS G
Now you see, I'm not asking you if you're telling lies or
if you're mistaken, I'll use both categorise at the moment,
I'm asking you a very reasonable question. Is that a reasonable
question? Why could or why should Jeanette be mistaken?
See this is, we're coming to the stage now, where this is
your reason to say to me, "This is why you Officer,
are all wrong. This is why you've got
DS G
it totally out of context, this is why I have nothing to
do with Alison's death," and so forth. I'm giving you
the opportunity here Now a
LT
hough you're exercising your right of no comment, I'm saying
to you in a round about way, I'm not attacking you at the
moment, I'm saying, you tell me why Jeanette TAPP is mistaken.
I'll say mistaken as opposed to lying for the moment. Is
there any reason you can think of why Jeanette could be
wrong? Did police browbeat Jeanette TAPP into saying these
things?
LT
Well I couldn't answer that could I?
DS G
Well, alright, I know you can't, but I'll try and say the
things that may be going through your head because you may
be a bit reluctant to, or feel a bit intimidated to say
those things. But in your own mind why do you think that
Jeanette TAPP is mistaken? Because obviously, she is mistaken
because you've signed your statement saying that one was
true. So we've got a difference of opinion Now Jeanette
and you and Michelle, you've been friends for a long time
haven't you? So you're sort of half nodding, I mean I
LT
Yeah, yeah.
DS G
I've met Jeanette TAPP a couple of times, she's not a spiteful
person is she? She's a nice girl, who thinks very highly
of you. You like her actually, I'm, I don't know whether
your prepared to say that, but you like Jeanette TAPP don't
you?
LT
Yes.
DS G
Michelle likes Jeanette. I think in fact, Michelle is very
fond of Jeanette. Isn't she?
LT
Yeah.
DS G
And I should think in reality, Jeanette TAPP probably feels
that Michelle is maybe the closest or best friend, whichever
category you want to look at, that she's got really, because
she hasn't, a you know, got many friends at the Clinic,
has she?
LT
I don't know.
DS G
Well, you've met her many more times than I have, you've
become friends with her because of Michelle's friendship
with her. Isn't that fair to say?
LT
Yeah.
DS G
And she has always held you and Michelle in very high esteem,
because you're two of the people who are very, two of the
very few friends she's got? So I mean, what I'm saying to
you, Jeanette TAPP has got no axe to grind with you or especially
with Michelle has she? You know, she hasn't done anything
to either one of you recently, or you haven't done anything
to her that's she's going get back at you?
WDC S
Perhaps it's something you should think of in case there
is something that Jeanette ia saying to get her own back,
to have a go at you two, and if there is something, then
it's vitally important that you tell us now, that there
has something gone on between you three which is causing
this problem. You have to accept that that statement that
she made and the statement that you make differ, somebody
ia wrong and either it is an oversight, a mistake, or somebody
is moat definitely telling lies and somebody is most definitely
telling the truth.
DS G
From what Coren has just said to you Lisa, I mean, let me
ask you straight forward question. Have you got an axe to
grind with Jeanette?
LT
Not that I know of.
DS G
Has Michelle?
LT
Not that I know of.
DS G
Has Jeanette got an axe to grind with you?
LT
I can't think of any.
DS G
I, I know you haven't seen her. When was the last time you
saw her
LT
I can't remember now.
DS G
it's a couple of weeks ago is it?
LT
I can't remember.
DS G
You can't remember? Again, it's not a trick question, I
don't think you can have seen her for a couple of days anyway
have you? Certainly more than a week? Yeah? That's fair
to say isn't it, you haven't seen her for more than a few
days?
LT
Yeah, fair to say.
DS G
Because obviously Michelle's been, we know, she accepts
the fact she's been to Ireland and other places and if Michelle
isn't at the Clinic you wouldn't have any particular reason
to go to the Clinic would you?
LT
No.
DS G
I mean I know you stayed with JJ before in her room, but
generally you go to ( Cough) to see your sister and then
on seeing your sister normally. of course. JJ being a friend,
the 3 being friends, it's inevitable of course, that you
see JJ. But you wouldn't go to the Clinic or not normally
go to the Clinic, when Michelle wasn't there just to see
JJ would you?
LT
No.
DS G
So it's more than a few days or more than a week, or whatever,
the fact that the last time you saw Jeanette, yeah?
LT
Yeah.
DS G
The last time you saw each other you were on good terms,
weren't you?
LT
Yeah.
DS G
And before that, you know, I'm going back even to the day
of the murder, she was very comforting as far as you were
concerned. She saw you were upset and she sorted out a taxi
at reception for you, and sent you off home to dad, I mean,
it isn't a trick question. This is something that you know,
we're all aware of, that's been said in your statement and
and her statements and so forth, that she was very comforting
to you on the evening of the 3rd, the evening of the murder,
wasn't she? After uh, your sister phoned you and that, yeah?
LT
Yeah.
DS G
So what I'm saying is there hasn't been any recent axe for
for Jeanette to lie. So you're sort of half shaking your
head there, does that mean she hasn't got any real reason
to lie?
LT
Not that I know of.
DS G
Okay. This um, sorry, we're on 29 minutes at the moment
on the
DS G
tape, um, I'll just stop here and I'll change the tapes
over. Uh, the time is 11.06. This interview is stopped for
the present
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