| The Dream Solution
- Documents |
08/08/91
- RECORD OF TAPE RECORDED INTERVIEW of LISA JANE TAYLOR
Record of tape interview
Person interviewed: Lisa Jane Taylor
Place of interveiw: Battersea Police Station Interview Room
Date of interview: 8th August 1991
Time commenced: 11.49am
Time concluded: 12.17pm
Interviewing Officer: DS S Gleeson
Other person(s) present: WDC C Smith, M Holmes, Andrew Keenan
& Co (Solicitor)
Page Missing
DS GL
quarter full. There was certainly more in the bag that what
she could see, but. not being nosey, she didn't actually
go through the bag. I ask you yesterday and I ask you again,
was there blood stained clothing in that bag?
LT
No comment.
DS GL
Blood stained clothing as a result of Alison SHAUGHNESSY's
murder? On the 4th when you and your sister visited the
Clinic to pick your bag up, I said yesterday, you said to
Jeanette in fact, it was Michelle that said to Jeanette,
"We were here after 5 yesterday." Re-emphasising
the time that they wanted her to lie about. She recalls
the policeman first coming to see her about making a statement.
The policeman called Kim, which was DC WESTON, and he asked
her if she could remember what had happened on the 3rd June.
She says; "I should add that I'd spoken to Michelle
on the phone before the police coming and she told me that
the police would be coming to me soon, and to ring her after
they'd been. When the policeman left on the Sunday, because
I was very frightened, I didn't know what to say to him.
I knew that Michelle and Lisa had been home at 5 o'clock
because they had told me. i didn't really know what to say
for the best. A couple of minutes after the policeman had
gone I phohed Michelle, I told her what the police, about
the police visit.
She said to me, meaning Michelle, they were really here
after 5 just after 5. And they were'nt lying to me, meaning
lying to Jeanette, and to tell the police that. I was there
with at that time. I really believed that Michelle and Lisa
were there at that time so I decided to tell the police
that I was there too. Michelle has been a very good friend
to me and I always believed what she told me, and had no
reason to believe she was lying." She recalls telling
the policeman DC WESTON that she got home at 5 and Michelle
and Lisa arrived at 5.15. After she'd finished with the
policeman, meaning a statement, she phoned Michelle and
told her what she'd said, Michelle just said, "Okay."
Michelle enquired through Jeanette if anybody else had been
interviewed at the Clinic. She speaks of her having a conversation
with Michelle and Michelle comes out with the comment, "That
we," meaning her and Lisa, "We were definitely
at the house." Meaning the Clinic, the residential
part. She seemed to be reassuring me that she was there
she talked about the second interview with police, which
was in fact to me, and she said, "I really was worried
about lying to the police.
I was worried because things just did not seem right, for
that night But she still believed your sister because she
thought so highly of her as a friend, she still believed
in you and your sister and was lying, if one can say, 'for
the right reasons.' Now after the second interview which
is the day you made your statement, the same day that Jeanette
TAPP made her second statement, the same day, some time
after the second interview, which is the one I've just made
reference to, I went to Michelle's house in Forest Hill.
When I got there, only Anne TAYLOR was there, meaning your
mother. We were talking and during this conversation, I
told Anne that I wasn't actaully at home that day until
7pm. She didn't really say much
DS GL
but seemed surprised. Because obviously we've got to a situation
here Lisa, where Jeanette TAPP is telling your mother something
which your mother has been told something to the contrary
by you and your sister. So you've lied to your mother, just
as much as you've lied to everyone else. Can you recall
discussing your statements, the statements of you and Michelle
with your mother?
LT
No comment.
DS GL
Has your mother ever spoken to you regarding these statements?
LT
No comment.
DS GL
About speaking to Jeanette TAPP? About being at the Clinic?
LT
No comment.
DS GL
Because a week or so later, Jeanette TAPP is approached
again in Forest Hill, she's at a car boot sale. Your mother,
'she, meaning your mother, brought up the conversation about
me being there that day. She asked me if I remembered shouting
'hello' to her on the phone?' You see your mother made a
statement to police when you made a statement to police,
two weeks ago.
And she can recall phoning you after Neighbours, about 5
past 6 and speaking to you at the Clinic. I beg your pardon,
you phoned your mother as opposed to your mother phoning
you and she remembers JJ's voice in the background, and
if one looks at that in the cold light of day, you've got
Jeanette in the background, of course, from your mother's
statement it's obvious the fact that she's talking to you
at the Clinic and not anywhere else.
And JJ says in her statement, 'She after having brought
up the conversation, she asked me if I remember shouting
hello to her, meaning your Mother, hello to JJ when Lisa
had phoned her. Jeanette says, "I definitely, I said,
definitely not, because I did not go to the phone with Lisa,
and I didn't get back until after 7pm." Bearing in
mind this phone call was supposed to be made at 6.
Your mother kept saying to Jeanette TAPP, "I'm sure
you were there, I'm sure it was that day." Jeanette
TAPP is terrified of your family, your mother in particular.
That is one of the main reasons that Jeanette TAPP has been
so reluctant to actually tell the truth besides being a
friend, she's afraid. What have you discussed with your
mother regarding the Alison SHAUGHNESSY murder?
LT
No comment.
DS GL
'I have been asked if I know a Rasta man who is a friend
of Lisa's. I know she has a friend who is a Rasta called
Phillip. I've seen him on about 2 occasions at the Clinic.
I think he owns a small white car. On one occasion Michelle
was with Lisa and Phillip.' So we're back to Mr Phillip
again in Bromley who you don't know who the hell I'm talking
about. Whom you refer to regarding the party. Again, I'll
give you the opportunity, do you want to tell me about Phillip
so he can be contacted?
LT
No comment.
DS GL
My colleague asked you this morning regarding the shoes
you were wearing, that she believed those footmarks could
well be marks similar or identical to marks found at 41
Vardens Road, flat 3 which is Alison SHAUGHNESSY's house.
I'll ask you again, have you been to 41 Vardens Road?
LT
No comment.
DS GL
Because when we look back at your statement of some two
weeks ago you categorically state in that statement which
you this morning stated on tape you recall making, on page
3 of the typed statement, it says, this is your statement,
'Michelle also went to their wedding,' meaning John and
Alison SHAUGHNESSY's wedding in Ireland, and helped them
move into their flat in the Clapham area, when the moved
out of the residency,' meaning from the Clinic.
'I have never been to their flat.' The Officers, when they
interviewed, asked you on several occasions, if you've ever
been to 41, flat 3, Vardens Road? And you have said, "No."
So if your shoe marks are at 41, flat 3 Vardens Road and
you haven't been there, it must have been when your sister
Michelle was wearing them. Your mother was interviewed and
a statement was taken. Your mother stated that you'd never
been to Vardens Road. Is your mother likely to lie? Is your
mother telling the truth?
LT
No comment.
DS GL
Is your mother telling the truth whether or not you have
been to 41 Vardens Road, flat 3?
LT
No comment.
DS GL
Because she says you've never been there. You say you have
never been there. Michelle, your sister in her statement,
categorically states you have never been there. And John
SHAUGHNESSY will state that you have never ever been to
his flat at flat 3, 41 Vardens Road So we've got four people,
look at me Lisa, we've got four people stating that you
have never been to flat 3, 41 Vardens Road. Are they wrong?
LT
No comment.
DS GL
Your sister, yourself, your mother and John SHAUGHNESSY,
four people And you say no comment to your mother's statement,
to your own statement, to your sister's statement, and to
John SHAUGHNESSY's statement Who actually is the resident
of that flat. You say no comment to three members of the
family which is you included and John SHAUGHNESSY.
These people have all stated beyond a shadow of a doubt
that you have never, ever been to 41 Vardens Road, and that's
including you, number 4. Can you explain to me why your
fingerprints are inside flat 3, 41 Vardens Road? Can you
explain to me how your fingerprints got into the flat where
Alison SHAUGHNESSY was murdered? Lisa can explain to me
how your fingerprints are in that flat?
LT
No comment.
DS GL
Because for somebody's fingerprints to be in the flat, they're
there And when you made a statement to police 2 weeks ago,
you gave what's called elimination prints to the Officer.
Those elimination prints were compared against fingerprint
marks found at the scene of the murder, and they are your
fingerprints, not Michelle's, not anybody else's, yours.
And you sit there and say to me no comment.
We've got JJ TAPP saying that you ware lying, that she lied
on your behalf because she was a friend and she believed
you, so in your statement, I can prove categorically, is
a pack of lies. You've got the person at the Clinic seeing
you and your sister leave the Clinic at 10 past 4 in the
afternoon. You've seen the person at the Clinic seeing you
coming back at 6 o'clock in the evening. We've got you,
your mother your sister, and John SHAUGHNESSY stating that
you have never been to that flat.
And we've got a fingerprint expert who can say your fingerprints
are inside the flat where she died. We have got a resident
from that street, a doctor, who's been seen previously by
Police, and was seen again last weekend, and he can recall
two females of you and your sister's description, leaving
that flat at quarter to six in the evening as he cycled
home. Carrying a bag.
And he said, "I feel a bit of a clown, in fact .I should
have informed Police sooner, but I didn't make, everybody
automatically assumes that the perpetrator of that offence
was a man. Nobody can relate to a woman killing another
woman." So when you add it all together, you and your
sister, you and your sister, sat outside and waited for
Alison. You both followed her into the flat on the pretext
of collecting pots. And you killed her. Who stabbed her
first? Who did the stabbing? Did she scream? Did she get
a chance to scream? Who plunged the knife into 'Alison SHAUGHNESSY
on all those occasions Who did Lisa?
LT
No comment.
DS GL
Are you that cold a person, you can sit there, look away
from me and say, 'no comment?' Is that what the taking of
human life means to you, 'no comment?' You killed Alison,
you murdered her, you stabbed her to death. She's gone,
she's buried. She's got no other life, she's finished. Her
life is extinct, it's gone at 21 years of age. Because you
or your sister took it upon yourselves to get rid of her
Because your sister had an axe to grind with Michelle, with
Alison. JJ and everybody was fooled for a long time, the
fact that your sister was friends with Alison.
Your sister, was having a sexual relationship with John
SHAUGHNESSY before he got married, since he got married,
and a week after his wife was buried in Ireland, your sister
slept with John SHAUGHNESSY. You see, you haven't got a
motive for killing Alison, but your sister has. Your sister
wanted Alison SHAUGHNESSY out of the way so that she could
have John SHAUGHNESSY to herself.
I've got a copy of her diary here of last year. I won't
go through it continuously because it's quite a big document.
There's many, many pages where she talks about their love
making and so forther and about her love for John and so
forth. I'll read from a copy of exhibit AS/13. I'll read
from page 49, which is two pages after a date Wednesday
31st October 1990.
'I don't understand. One minute we're together in the room
and the next minute we are miles apart from each other in
the room. I love him a lot, and yet, what do I have to show
for it? (Nothing but memories.) He said that maybe I regretted
getting to know him, well and maybe I wish we had just stayed
work friends. My dream solution would be for Alison to disappear
as if she never existed, and then maybe I could give everything
I want to the man I love.'
That's why Alison SHAUGHNESSY died Lisa. That is why you
and your sister killed Alison SHAUGHNESSY. That's why you
went to her house that day and waited for her to come home
because you were both aware of the fact that John SHAUGHNESSY
would be collecting flowers at Waterloo and doing the flower
arranging at the Clinic. There you are at half past 5 at
night sitting outside her house, she walks home and walks
in the door, you and your sister follow her in on the pretext
of getting pots or something along those lines, and you
kill her.
Not on the spur of the moment, you'd planned it. You know
what action you going to take. You know what you're going
to do. Just sitting watching you here, you're so calm and
you're so controlled. Who stuck the knife into Alison? Don't
switch off from me Lisa, I'm speaking to you. Who stuck
the knife into Alison?
LT
No comment.
DS GL
How many times did you stab Alison?
LT
No comment.
DS GL
How do you explain your fingerprints in the flat at flat
3, 41 Vardens Road?
LT
No comment.
DS GL
Your face changes when you say no comment to fingerprints.
You get that worried look on your face. Why are your fingerprints
there, Lisa, when you've never been there, according to
you, your mother, your sister, John SHAUGHNESSY? But you
weren't that careful, were you that night? Neither was Michelle.
You left your fingerprints behind, you possibly left a shoe
mark behind. You've possibly put Alison's blood into your
jacket. But there's no dispute that your fingerprints are
in the flat. ' You made your one mistake. 'JJ will alibi
us, we're covered. She's a good friend, she'll believe anything
we tell her,' and she did. That's the ironic thing about
this whole situation, she did. She was gullible enough to
believe it. She believed you because she believed in you.
She doesn't anymore.
She knows now how devious you both can be, doesn't she?
How you can plan to kill another person, to take their life.
But your slip up was, JJ decided to tell the truth. But
it wasn't enough -it's not enough to say to you, "You've
got no alibi for that afternoon." It's not enough to
say, "Somebody saw you leave the Clinic at 10 past
4." It's not enough to say that, "Somebody saw
you coming back to the Clinic at 6 o'clock," because
that still doesn't put you in Vardens Road. And with Doctor
uh, I believe his name is, uh
WDC S
It's double barrelled.
DS GL
Double barrelled, UNWIN- WHITE or something, with the Doctor
seeing and describing you both, it's still not enough. But
what is enough Lisa, is your fingerprints in their flat.
Because you've never been there. You've signed a statement
as to my knowledge and belief, this statement is true, your
mother's made the same statement, you sister, end especially,
the occupant John SHAUGHNESSY.
He will state that you were never, ever, anywhere near 41
Vardens Road. That's your mistake. That the witness at 41
Vardens Road, that's the witness. The witness is your hands,
your fingerprints. You're thinking, Oh my God, how can i
explain the fact that my fingerprint were in the flat? I've
never been there. I kept telling everybody I've never been
there. Fingerprints don't lie. The time is 28 minutes, sorry
it's 12.17 and there's somebody knocking on the door. Please
enter.
WDC S
Will you introduce yourself please, for the tape.
PC 397
Yeah, PC397WA BAILEY, sent here by the Superintendent WA.
DS GL
Wishes to speak?
PC 397
Wishes to speak to you all regarding,
DS GL
Okay. I'll, the time is um, 12.17. Have you got any comment
to make before I conclude this interview for the present?
LT
No.
DS GL
Mr HOLMES?
MH
No.
DS GL
12.17, I'll stop the interview now. |
| Contact : bernard.omahoney@bernardomahoney.com |
|
|
|
