| The Dream Solution
- Documents |
??/??/01 - Transcript of Michelle
and Lisa Taylor which was not used in Channel 5 Documentary
"Sex, lies and a videotape"
ITN FACTUAL
DOUBLE JEOPARDY - "SEX, LIES AND A VIDEOTAPE"
TAYLOR SISTERS #14
Q.
So. um, tell us about the Police and what you later discovered
things that perhaps weren't used in the trial that could've
been or things that could have been [inaudible].
Lisa
Okay, well, reading through some of the paperwork afterwards
we found out that two bracelets were taken to a pawn shop
in Battersea and the Police didn't follow that up and there
was two bracelets missing from the flat. We also found out
that two knives were taken from John's brother's house, um,
and the pathologist said that either one of them could've
been the murder weapon but they weren't tested. There was
also a statement saying that there was a man with a long Mac
standing at the top of the stairs [inaudible] Road and that
wasn't followed up. There was footprints in the house, you
know, blood footprints. Obviously they weren't our size and
that wasn't followed up or other fingerprints.
Michelle
There was the window that was left open.
Lisa
Yeah. There was so rnuch that they didn't follow up because,
you know, as we've said so rnany times, they had tunnel vision.
They wanted us. They didn't want anybody else so they just
forgot about all these things and went with what they wanted.
Q.
Excellent. Very good. I mean, ultimately nobody found you
innocent by the way the system worked. I mean, you got off
on a technicality. I mean, how satisfying is it?
Lisa
I hadn't really thought about that one.
Michelle
Let us think for a minute.
Lisa
No, I know we didn't.
Q.
No, the way the system works.
Lisa
The way it's said or what people are lead to believe?
Mum
No, it's only the newspapers that have said 'a technicality.'
Q.
Well, ultirnately they don't find you innocent.
Mum
The Court of Appeal...
Lisa
No. They just say it's unsafe and unsatisfactory.
Mum
No. That was called something else in the Court of Appeal.
Lisa
Non disclosure it's called
Q.
But the point is they don't stand up.. the point is...
Lisa
They don't say "You're innocent, you can go home."
Q.
There's always a loose end isn't there. They don't say these
people are innocent. They only say the [inaudible] is unsafe
and unsatisfactory.
Mum
A material irregularity is not called a technicality. They
did not get off on a technicality.
Lisa
All right Mum! He's only saying the way people perceive it
when they don't understand.
Mum
It was never perceived in the Court of Law [inaudible] and
Joanne Goodwin.
Q.
But it's not very satisfactory I presume, or is it? Is it
something that you'd like to be.. I mean they're talking about,
for example, double jeopardy and things like that. How would
you feel about the case being re-opened properly and being
re-investigated properly?
Lisa
I dunno.
Michelle
I dunno.
Lisa
I haven't got any thought about that. You'll have to give
me some time to think about that first.
Q.
Because, I mean, otherwise, people are gonna say 'well, there's
something funny about that' They got off on a technicality.
Maybe they did it after all?
Michelle
Urm.
Q.
So somebody must be guilty and until they find somebody else
I… there's always…
Lisa
Yeah, I know what you're saying; they're just saying that
basically you were lucky and you got let off. It doesn't mean
that you get your innocence.
Q.
Well I mean this is something that presumably you have discussed?
Michelle
I don't know. The High Court of Appeal - these Judges are
experienced. You know, they can see when there's something's
wrong. They know that this wasn't right. I know they can't
just come out and say 'Right we're letting you go because
you're innocent' because that's not how the system works.
They have to say that it was 'unsafe', it was 'unsatisfactory'
but really. I feel that they're saying, you know, you're not
guilty that's it.
Lisa
Yeah. The system doesn't let them say anything else unfortunately.
Q.
Do you think that's a flaw in the system though? I mean what
I'm getting at is it almost seems to me they've left your
innocence hanging in the air…
Lisa
You've still got to live with that hanging over your shoulder,
you know, with people thinking - you know, everyone's always
going to have their opinion, which is fair enough and you
can't change everybody's mind and I think evidence and everything
else just has to speak for itself, but at the end of the day,
yeah, they don't turn round and say 'You're innocent, go home'
and I think that is a flaw in the system, because when you
can see that blatantly there is no evidence at all they should
be allowed to turn round and say this shou1dn't happen.
Q.
Because ultimately, has anybody paid a price for Alison's
murder?
Lisa
No. Only us.
Q.
All those people you blame - the papers, the police - to them,
what has happened?
Michelle
Nothing.
Lisa
Nothing's happened to them. The Police weren't prosecuted,
the papers weren't prosecuted, you know. Nothing's happened
to anybody.
Michelle
And then you still have Mr O'Mahoney carrying on the same
sort of stuff and nothing's happening to him. He's not being
stopped he's being allowed to get away with it. It just carries
on.
Q.
I mean, do you feel that anything's been gained from what
you've been through?
Michelle
Gained? Not to trust no one. Can't think of that as a gain
though.
Q.
I think it would be nice to have a line to kind of summarise
everything. It's like, you know, so, you've been through all
that and basically it could still happen to somebody tomorrow,
that's what I'm getting at. I mean it is one of the more depressing
aspects of this story is that we got through all this and
it's still happening to people. That's why.. I mean, do you
think anything has been learnt at all by anyone?
Lisa
No. I mean, you hear on the news every day the Police are
still being, you know investigated for certain things, the
press are still printing and doing what they do, you know.
No one's really paid a price for, not just for us but for
loads of other people. I mean as we speak there's loads of
cases going on in the newspapers and I mean, who knows if
they did it or they didn't? You can't trust what the police
say and you can't follow what the papers do.
Q.
I mean, the one last thing - because we talked about evidence
and procedure and things, the one thing we've never, you've
never… the one thing you haven't said is that you didn't
kill Alison Shaughnessy. So I want to ask you did you or did
you not kill Alison Shaughnessy?
Michelle
(Laughs) The way he said that! (Long Pause) No. Me and my
sister did not kill Allison Shaughnessy.
Q.
That's the one thing that you haven't said to me in this...
Lisa
Yeah, or.. yeah - you haven't asked us a question that relates
to that way though have you.
Q.
No, this is it. That's why I thought I'd better ask you outright.
Anything else you want to say?
Lisa
Um, well, I just feel I don't want to tar everybody with the
same brush because obviously everybody's not the same, but
I just feel the Officer in charge had a lot to do with what
happened to us because, you know, before he got put onto the
case, you know, things was fine and then he came on and he
had a choice whether to hand in the paperwork or whether to
keep it and he chose to keep it, so you know, I don't want
to say that all Police are bad and all Police do this because
they don't but in particular I would have to say, you know,
he had the choice to hand the paperwork over earlier and he
chose not to so, I mean, he's partly to blame for what happened
to us.
Michelle
He also had the chance to investigate this crime properly
and he didn't.
Q.
I mean, you were saying about Bernard. You say you could move
on from this case except for Bernard keeps bringing it back
but I mean a lot of people are listening to Bernard.
Lisa
Of course they are. I think, you know, Bernard's been, you
know, putting himself in our lives for the last ten years
but I mean, not only us but Alison's parents. I mean he's
coming out with this ridiculous confession. I mean we know
it isn't true but, you know, he's giving them false hope which
isn't fair because at the end of the day they've lost their
daughter and no one's come to pay for this, you know, so Bernard
shouldn't be doing this because he's hurting more people than
he realises.
Q.
Um, I mean, do you have feelings for Allison's family as well
Michelle? What [inaudible]?
Michelle
Yeah, I feel for them because, I mean, if anything happened
to my kids, you know, I'd want to see someone brought to justice
for this. I'd want justice for my daughter. I wanna know who
killed her, how it happened, you know. At the end of the day
they've got no result from this.
Q.
I mean they, obviously... I think they still believe that
you were responsible. What would you say to that?
Michelle
I'd say if they were given all the paperwork or looked through
everything that the Police had and saw, you know, all the
paperwork that was withheld. All the other evidence that the
Police never investigated then maybe they would, you know,
see that's there's someone else out there that done it.
Q.
Just finally, on that score, I mean, this talk of Double Jeopardy
- I know there's a review going on in this case at the moment.
I mean how do you feel about the case being reopened?
Michelle
I think if the case was to be reopened and it was to be investigated
how it should be done in the first place then, you know, they've
got to come up.. they've got to find the killer.
Lisa
I just think if they, you know.. they're reopening the case
and hopefully they'll look at all the evidence and they'll
see all the evidence that wasn't looked at the time, you know,
and see that it was all put to one side and maybe they can
investigate it and actually find out who killed Alison because
we didn't kill Alison and somebody else did and they're walking
scot-free, you know, and they need to be found.
Q.
I mean, do you feel that perhaps something needs to happen
before you can finally draw a line [inaudible]? I mean, because
we're saying, I mean really there'll always be perhaps a cloud
or there'll always be an article around the corner [inaudible]
unless this is resolved in some way.
Michelle
Yeah, I mean if they was to find whoever done it then, you
know, obviously the articles about me and my sister would
stop and, um, [pause] then he wouldn't be able to make his
money.
Q.
I mean have you put the experience firmly behind you now,
aside from Bernard?
Lisa
You can't ever put it behind you. You know, you're taken away
from your family when you're very, very young. You're put
into prison for something you haven't done, you know, and
then you come out 'back to normal life' as they say, you know,
you've got to try and get on with it. You can't get a job
because, you know, you haven't got a criminal record but they
don't know what to do with you. You know, you can't go on
a course for ex-cons because you're not one because you've
been freed, so you're just kind of left in limbo and it takes
years and years to try and build this up, you know, so no
- you can't ever put it behind you.
Michelle
And then when you do try and start your life again you've
got someone there that's trying to ruin it continuously, year
after year.
Lisa
And you live day to day wondering if anything's going to be
in the press when you wake up in the morning, you know, so
putting it behind you, or putting it behind us, hasn't been
able to happen ever since we came home.
Q.
I mean, what would you like to see happen now? Is there anything
that can be done do you think?
Lisa
Well, I'd like for them to re-investigate it and to find out
who did kill Alison and then maybe, you know, they'd see that
we didn't do it and they'd be able to, instead of just saying
we're not looking for anybody else, they'd be able to say,
you know, they didn't do it and we've found who has or who
did. [Inaudible talking]
Q.
Great. That's really good. What do you think [inaudible]?
So, is there anything else you'd like to say?
Q.
Yeah, I just... [inaudible conversation]
Michelle
At the end of the day I was guilty of having an affair but
I wasn't guilty of killing anyone. [Inaudible conversation]
Lisa
I feel that I was found guilty, you know, because I'd had
an affair and not found guilty because...you now, I didn't
kill Allison and at the end of the day someone did and they
are out there and if they re-opened the case and found them,
you know, then that's only got to be right
Lisa
Do it again. Inaudible conversation
Michelle
A the end of the day I was, you know, guilty of having an
affair but I'm not guilty of killing Allison and I think that
if the Police re-open the case and found the killer that would
prove it and people would see the truth.
Q.
That's it. That was fine.
END OF TAPE |
| Contact : bernard.omahoney@bernardomahoney.com |
|
|
|
